Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brazilian domains

Hello Paulo,

Le Wed, 11 May 2011 09:28:58 -0300,
Paulo de Souza Lima <paulo.s.lima@gmail.com> a écrit :

> 2011/5/11 Charles-H. Schulz <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org>
>
> > Paulo,
> Good morning, Charles,
>
>
> > This is just a comment from my side as you keep asking a question
> > that I feel I had answered before, but you believe I haven't, so
> > let me answer to the question again. It's about your question on
> > the North American LibreOffice DVD team and website and the
> > Brazilian one.
> >
> > Take a look at the two website. The NA LibreOffice DVD team has a
> > website that is focused on a DVD project, that encompasses multiple
> > languages. It is not a traditional "native-language" team, to use
> > the OOo parlance, and it does not try to even harbour the full
> > TDF / LO colours and logos. The NA DVD team has formed and debated
> > here, on this mailing lists and on others (website and discuss);
> > they did this in the open for everyone to see, the SC knew about
> > (or could not ignore it as it was happening here), and they were
> > generally very delicate about trademarks, using of terms, etc.
>
> Ok. I understand that, BUT, in my point of view, this issue was about
> the domain itself and not about the content in it.

It was not just the domain.

> There are two different situations here, but the problem is the same:
> the use of TDF brand in the domains name outside TDF structure. I
> won't insist in this matter anymore, ok?

Okay. 


> Look: I don't want to fight anymore, we shall solve this matter right
> now, or I quit. I am wasting much time here, and TDF nor Libreoffice
> pay my bills. I should remind you I am a *volunteer* here, trying to
> show you that we are doing our job, and you are questioning our
> behavior based on partial evidences.

I'm a volunteer too, Paulo, most of us are. 

> And, yes, I think someone must
> have told you about that "behind the scenes", because your claims
> began to arrise a few days after we have done some changes in
> directions up here. 

That was not intended. I reacted after Luiz pointed to
libreoffice.org.br...

> Those are the same people who could question us
> about that decision, or remind us to talk to you before we do that,
> but they prefered to do things in another way, puting you and us into
> a battle. I think you were involved into a fight you could solve in a
> different way.
>
> I think with a little piece of good will from both of us, this
> unpleasant situation can be reverted, BUT, I will not admit we were
> doing something extremely wrong. 

Oh I don't think you were doing something "extremely wrong", that's not
what I would call it, but it was still wrong in several respects and we
feel it could have led to other wrong things. 


> Maybe we had made some decisions
> that were mistaken because of the lack of contributors in some areas,
> including those who could question the decision of using libreoffice
> brand in the domain name. But again: you could question us in a
> different manner, and we would be happy to fix our mistakes, as we
> have already done. You have to notice that we are abruptly switching
> many of our contents and mailing lists right now, harming a lot of
> contributors and users, because of YOUR requests. This harm is much
> more deeper for us than the harm for TDF of waiting a little more
> time to request the ownership and the redirection of that domains.
> But it is being done because of your urgency and your distrust on us.
> You could also have requested us a schedule for this to be done, but
> you prefered to force us into a extreme situation.
>
> That's OK. It doesn't matter anymore. It's done.

thank you. 

> > I hope you understand the difference better now. Also, I would
> > like, as another general comment, to remind you and everyone that
> > Claudio is also part of the core team of TDF. I am surprised that
> > he hasn't been more active on this particular topic. That's just my
> > feeling, perhaps I'm wrong. TDF does not take sides, were it
> > between ALTA and Colibre. Frankly we can't, we shouldn't, we won't.
> > It's not our job. The situation is what it is, it's unfortunate,
> > but we want to deal with the Brazilian community as a whole. It's a
> > very tempting for you or others, to think TDF will take sides, even
> > "secretly". What TDF wants is to work and help the community work,
> > that's it. We're not interested in local fightings, and should I
> > need to write it again, the Brazilian community is most welcome
> > here. It is your home.
>
> I am also surprised about the lack of participation of Olivier in this
> discussion. Claudio has his own personal problems and I can't speak
> for him. And, in fact, it seems there's only me in here, trying to
> show you what was happening and I am NOT a TDF member. Even other
> Brazilian TDF members aren't here. There are you, TDF founders, and
> me, an ordinary contributor. I say again: I am just a *volunteer* who
> loves to contribute to Libreoffice.

So again, we're volunteers here. 

> I am NOT looking for a job or a
> good political position in the "core" team, or in my community. In
> fact, as I have stated before, I am wasting much more time here than
> I have to dedicate to LibreOffice. From now on I will rethink my
> personal priorities.
>
> What you have requested is taking place, I suppose you will be
> satisfied, won't you? 

TDF will be satisfied when the whole community will be healthy and able
to contribute to LibreOffice. 

> I tryied to access libreoffice.org.br and it is
> still pointing to our old website. I will request Claudio to switch
> it to pt-br.libreoffice.org and that's my final contribution on this
> matter. I don't have the ownership nor admin control on it, so I will
> not reply any other question about that. Please refer to the domain
> owners. It rests the issue about the transfer of the domain ownership
> to someone else. We can help to find a trusted atourney or stablished
> NGO to do this role. You know what we think about that and we expect
> you take our considerations in your decision. 

That's a sensible proposal, indeed. 

> Otherwise, you will see
> a lot of very good Brazilian volunteer contributors jumping out the
> boat, certainly.
>
> If you garantee us you will hear our community before taking any
> decision about "officialities" and "representatives", which are
> really of our interest, I am about to end our discussion about "hiden
> conversations" and "backstage decisions". We want things clear and
> there are some things we still don't understand clearly. But I think
> we can discuss them in another ocasion in an smoother atmosphere.

Certainly. I think that TDF does not want to make decisions
about"representatives" in a light way, and if this issue has taught us
anything, it's that we have to pay attention to the local realities
much more. If we had talked with the founders of TDF who are brazilian
(Claudio, Olivier, etc.) more several months ago we might not have
prevented the split inside Brazil (this is something we can't act on)
but we could have avoided our present discussion. 


> I apologize any rude response I had given to you or anyone else.
> That's my nature not to get anything I think is unfair and say
> nothing. I am a kind of combative person also. But I repeat: nothing
> I said here is personal. I was simply defending our community's point
> of view.

I understand .

Thank you for being candid and reacting fast,

Charles. 

> > Best,
> Kind regards and success for you all.
>
>
> >  Charles.
> >
> > --
> <http://pt-br.libreoffice.org>
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador
> http://www.pasl.net.br
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729



-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Membre du Comité exécutif
The Document Foundation.

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