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Hi Martin,

I am not sure what has upset you that much - are you going to FOSDEM by
chance?  Would be great to talk face to face.  Please read more inline:

Martin Srebotnjak píše v Út 15. 01. 2013 v 22:55 +0100:

no, your writing does not console me, I am afraid of solo actions of
documentation writers that might make changes that are not in favor of
the product (although some writer is personally enthusiastic about
them, just like you are about making English help editable in wiki).

If you imagine - copy pasting or moving some page here and there in
the wiki structure or changing wording here and there is an easy job
in the wiki, but for translators this could mean many empty strings in
Pootle of something that has been already almost fully translated. We
will be working like mad because of such small changes. Translated
help will never be 100% localized. LibreOffice will not be up to the
norms for adoption of software in government and civic institutions.

In case we change the help to wiki as the source [NOTE: if at all; at
some stage; nobody is working on this if I'm not mistaken], there is of
course a trivial solution for this - work closely with the
documentation/help authors; forget about 'we' and 'they' and the 1st
time somebody does something bad just work with him/her to revert/fix

Of course, some additional technical solutions, like detection of moves,
fuzzy translations, re-generating translations nightly to check for
changes that are too aggressive & revert in the wiki, etc. etc. might
help too - there is no need to fear of changes in advance.

And - even as a wiki, the help can have a release cycle as the current
help has, aligned with the product release, in order to be able to
achieve 100% translation.

So I think it is great that it is currently hard to change help - a
technical writer must really be precise in the change she wants - and
this leads also to a very "localized" change also for localizers.
Also, help system is not so bad that it would need a total revamp. And
being translated in so many languages it would generate 100x the work
of a single writer's change.

No, there is nothing great about being hard to change help.  Our help
sucks in the current form, and I am talking content - there is so many
useless pages there that we have to translate to our languages (yes, I
am translating too).

And of course, if anybody wanted, it is much easier to create nightmares
with the current help source than it would potentially be with wiki as
the source.

So I will remain upset even though I do not want to.

I don't understand why.

Changing the
concept of help is not just a question of help writers/editors and
Kendy, who developed the po<->wiki translation system, but it is a
joint question to be discussed and decided with the l10n community.

Sure, completely agree with this.  I just have to add that blocking
changes without understanding is as unacceptable as changing something
without discussions.

But it seems you do not want to talk about it with the l10n people.

I do not understand why do you have this feeling; of course I do want to
talk to you - but it is hard when you start shouting whenever I only
mention wikihelp ;-)

BTW, with 2423 translations, I hope could be considered a l10n guy
myself these days, couldn't I?

Shouldn't such a change be discussed in the boards of TDF as it
affects so many language teams?

Technical Steering Committee is more proper I guess; but before that I
think it will be best if we two understand each other as the first


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