Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo [was: LibO logo]

Hi Joey, Christoph, all,

Christoph, I'll reply to your mail later (I don't think we're far away 
from each other), here just a short remark to Joey...

Johannes Bausch schrieb:
> Hey,
>
> 2011/2/25 Bernhard Dippold<bernhard@familie-dippold.at>
>
> > sorry, but I might misinterpret your mail, because I don't remember whom
> > you are citing (and you don't mention the author):
> Sorry for that. For me the whole discussion is a single thread in gmail.
> I'll remember to add the names in the future when necessary. I was quoting
> Martin.

Thanks.

At home my mail client shows the mails threaded, so it is not a problem 
to go back to the mail you cite. At work the webmail sorts all the mails 
by date - nearly no chance to find the original posting...
> I have done two alternative ligatures, maybe they are better suited for the
> font, since they're not so obtrusive. You can see them here:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey#Alternative_Ligatures
I like them more, as they keep the general impression of a sans font.

I might be wrong, but to my understanding ligatures are typographic 
elements to improve readability and visual balance of words - similar to 
kerning.

They are needed in cases, where the visually balanced distance between 
characters would lead to a too narrow space between parts of the characters.

Based on this thoughts, the distance between the cross line in "f" and 
the "i" is too narrow, when the distance has to be reduced for a visual 
balance. Therefore the cross is extended to the "i".

For the dot it's similar: At the adjusted character position the 
distance to the "f" bow is too small and the direction of the bow aims 
towards an eccentric position inside the dot. This looks imbalanced.

Among your proposals I prefer Alternative 2 because the "f" should have 
the same height in my understanding.

But I don't know why you raised the position of the dot. The logo 
doesn't contain another "i" in the regular area (the bold "i" in "Libre" 
is too different to be taken as reference). In comparison to such an "i" 
it would be necessary to extend the space between the bar and the dot a 
bit, because the "f" bow adds visual weight to the upper part of the 
"i". As we don't have a second regular "i" we don't need to move the dot 
in any direction.

As you showed in your proposals the visual impression is improved, when 
the "f" bow is oriented towards the middle of the "i" dot.

I think the same applies to the first "f": It's bow should be related to 
the following "f".

I made a quick sketch to show you what I mean:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Logo_ligature.png

Keeping the position of the "i" dot, but adjusted the "f" bows to 
harmonize with the inclusion of the "i" in the visual element.

I don't like it, because the first "f" bow should aim towards a slightly 
higher position on the second "f" and the bows are not constant in their 
bending. But I hope you'll understand what I mean.

After the optimization the logo should differ so little, that people 
will not see the difference, but realize that it looks better.

Best regards

Bernhard

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