Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions

Hi,

Please find my answers inline....

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger

> Am 02.10.2014 um 15:05 schrieb Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org>:
>
> On 10/2/2014 4:34 AM, Charles-H. Schulz
> <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
> > The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his 
> > own needs for free.
>
> I am *not* talking about enhancement/feature requests, I am talking
> about a major regression that should have never even made it into a
> release build (in other words, it should have been caught/fixed in
> rudimentary testing),

Dou you think the dev, who implemented this wanted to break this?


> Also, as I have said more than once - and even created an enhancement
> request for it -

We (QA) do not look at enhancement requests ATM to be honest... We do not have the volunteers....


> There is simply no - zero - reason to:
>
> 1. have not provided the ability to fall back to the old behavior when
> this very new, very different (to the old way) feature was implemented,
> *especially* considering that the old behavior is obviously still there
> (since you can still invoke it with CTRL-SHIFT-F9), or even more
> inexplicable,

It is a major change within a branch. Which is dangerous... Can break a lot of things


> 2. *immediately* re-introduce the old behavior - at the very least as an
> *option* - once this bug was detected - until it could be properly
> addressed, as I requested (again, once I became aware of the issue) here:

Make a custom build :) Or pay someone to introduce that ASAP

> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79877
>
> > Note that the patch already exists, but that you were not proactive in 
> > even calling attention on the issue.
>
> That is because, as I said:
>
> 1. There was basically no notice that such a major change was pending
> (I've been on the libreoffice users list since it was created, and the
> openoffice list for years prior to that),

You won't find such things on the user list... I guess it was not even on the QA list... Maybe on 
the dev list... IDK


> 2. As a one man shop, my time is limited, so my habits with respect to
> testing new Libreoffice builds were to wait until the next major version
> is at least at a .2 or .3 version,

Far too late to fix in this branch....


> 3. It is impossible to test every single feature, as evidenced by the
> actual devs who implemented this new feature/change who failed to even
> TEST the very BASIC paste functionality (as evidenced by the fact that
> the bug exists).

As a dev (I can tell you) you focus on other use cases then the actual users sometimes.... If a 
user test the BASIC functionality on alpha 0 this would be soon enough to get the fix 
(theoretically)

> As soon as I encountered it (when the first user I had updated reported
> it to me), I discovered the already opened bug (then subsequently
> created the 'enhancement' request referenced above to re-enable, as an
> option, the old behavior).
>
> > This seems to suggest that the situation your company is on with
> > respect to your LibreOffice deployment is not really problematic.
>
> It is, but there is simply nothing we can do about it.
>
> > If you are not ready to pay anything to have someone fix your
> > problem,
>
> Whose problem? First, this is Libreoffice's problem.

You cannot use the feature. It's your problem. There are no "LibreOffice's problems"

> Second, I am not
> the decision maker for things like this for our company. I am simply an
> IT guy. If you must know, if this were my company, I would be supporting
> numerous open source projects financially, but again - it is not my
> decision, and so I have to work with what I have, and since I am not
> independently wealthy, I am unable to pay for things like this out of my
> own pocket.

So leave them with a security vulnerability - Good job IT guy ;) 

> But that is all nothing to do with the fact that the responsibility for
> fixing REGRESSIONS should fall on the dev(s) that introduced them, and
> in fact this responsibility should be a part of any agreement they are
> subject to when formally accepted as dev contributors.

You can not force a volunteer

> Likewise, the responsibility for properly testing major new features is
> - or should be - again, first and foremost on the dev(s) dong the work,
> and only secondarily on the users.

They do test... But they cannot test everything. The users should test as well. Their pet use 
case...

> If you are seriously suggesting otherwise (and I don't think you are, so
> the following shouldn't apply to you), then you are nuts.
>
> > and don't even show up to call for an integration of the patch as
> > soon as possible,
>
> I called for it as soon as I became aware it was there.
>
> But, the point is, it should, again, be first on the dev(s) who
> introduce the regression to push the patch(es).

And you do not care it is risky?

> > > Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works).
>
> > It works really well, with an important vulnerability left unpatched. 
> > That seems to be not important to you either: 
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/security/advisories/
>
> It is, but again - we are in the position of being forced to choose
> between a rock and a hard place.
>
> > I guess everyone has his or her own priorities, but if anything happens 
> > because of that, you will have been warned.
>
> Yeah, thanks for ... nothing...
>
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