Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging users: initial results of the survey

Ken Springer <snowshed1@q.com> wrote:.
> On 11/10/13 9:11 PM, Ady wrote:
> > There are many ways for users to communicate: LibreOffice forum, Ask
> > LibreOffice, several LibreOffice mailing lists, Nabble, wiki,
> > Bugzilla, and several irc channels. The problem is, IMHO, they are
> > sometimes "too many" and "too complicated". Let me explain with a
> > simple example.
>
> And I would add, unknown to many users, including myself.  I don't have
> the time to deal with the few newsgroups I try to follow now, much less
> spending a lot of time on LO's website, and then learning how to use
> the different venues.
>
> I will give LO kudos for apparently having the content of Nabble and
> the mailing list being identical.  At least I believe it's identical.  But 
> LO falls a little bit short in not being able to attach documents, 
> screenshots, etc. via the mailing list when you use gmane.org.  If 
> that's a gmane issue, then that's the way it is, especially if you've 
> requested that ability.

I have found that mailing lists frequently strip all attachments. It is recommended instead to post 
the file on the web instead and incorporate a link to it in your eMail.

> I prefer a newsgroup reader to any of the varied forum formats, which
> is why I use gmane.  To me, Nabble is a forum.  But it is better than most because there is a 
> threaded view.  Even at that, it's not as efficient 
> and quick as using a newsgroup reader.  The display takes too much
> space for the information displayed, and of course, much slower from what
> I've experienced.

Pardon my ignorance. I don't even know what Nabble or gmane are. If they are "social media" then 
this old geezer doesn't participate and that's by choice. Mailing lists, product specific forums, 
and even (to a limited extent) IRC channels are fine.

> > In the release notes for LO 4.1.3, it said that the release was bit
> > by bit the same as "RC3". Well, that was incorrect, as it is the same
> > as 4.1.3.2, a.k.a. RC2 (there was no 4.1.3.3). What a casual reader
> > needs to do if he happens to catch the "typo"? Can he easily report
> > the one-character mistake? Does anyone think that this typo deserves
> > opening a new bug report in Bugzilla?

I shudder at the thought.

> I've not found Bugzilla to be user friendly for the average user. 
> Period.  If it's not user friendly for the average user, that user is 
> going to walk away with a negative impression.

Hear, hear! 

> > For each contact method mentioned above (each ML, Nabble, wiki,
> > Bugzilla, forum,...), a user needs to go through an additional sign
> > up, sometimes requiring multiple steps. In our example (RC3 typo), do
> > you think a casual reader would go through a sign up process just to
> > report one wrong character?

I hope that one can access these communication channels "read only" without a password(?).

> > Just as an example, I am subscribed to the users ML, and I found
> > annoying to go through additional sign-ups for Nabble. I can
> > understand that there might be relevant reasons for this; but it is
> > still annoying :). On the other hand, if a user is interested in
> > Writer only, having to receive emails regarding Draw (or anything
> > else than Writer) is one reason not to subscribe to the users ML. So
> > perhaps separated per-program lists should be available, instead of
> > one unified "users" ML? (I am not necessarily recommending it; just
> > mentioning such potential situation.)

Unfortunately users frequently don't know where to post a question or observation about a 
particular LO component. Also, some topics apply to the LO framework or to more than one LO 
component.

> Add my support to that suggestion.  I get tired of having to deal with 
> Base issues, since I don't use Base.

OTOH I find it educational to see how others are using LO components that I'm not using.

> > Then we have several irc channels, but none of those channels
> > targeted to users are really active, ever (e.g. #libreoffice and/or
> > #libreoffice-qa). So what's the point of publishing the "existence"
> > of those irc channels if they are not really open with someone from
> > the LibreOffice Team being present in the channel? I'm not saying
> > answers should be "on real time". For irc to be relevant for users,
> > someone at least should maintain the channel open and saving logs,
> > checking it once a day or so. This is one contact method that could
> > be easily used to report the typo mentioned in our example.

A very salient point. Someone should indeed monitor the IRC(s) and be an interface to/from the 
developers. Actually, an IRC is very much a realtime communication channel but you are suggesting 
using it as a minor issue drop box. That's an interesting concept. 

> > One day is one typo, another day is another typo. Then there is some
> > minor low-priority bug in the installer (e.g adding a link to the
> > desktop even when the user unchecked the corresponding box during the
> > installation process). Then the wiki might need some little
> > correction or update... For each minor issue, a user could just think
> > "not worth going through all the sign up troubles for each different
> > service". As a consequence, none of those little corrections are
> > reported / performed.
> >
> > What's the point of "Ask LibreOffice" if each question is seen, say,
> > 3 times in a one week period? Most questions are unanswered.
> > Similarly with LibreOffice forum. A user might not bother to sign up
> > to such a method that is hardly ever used by relevant users; and if
> > it goes through it anyway and no answer is provided (as it is the
> > case with most "Ask LibreOffice" topics), it would probably generate
> > a rejection response towards LibreOffice.

What is "Ask LibreOffice?" How is it accessed?

> Regarding the previous 3 paragraphs:
>
> irc channels, most people have never heard of them.  The same for ICQ. 

ICQ? I'm part of the uninformed crowd.

> So they don't know how to use them.  I use Skype and Yahoo Messenger. 

Skype — VOIP?
Yahoo Messenger — no clue.

> And I started using them because I was given the information those 
> systems existed.  No software package has ever told me "You can get
> help using the irc channels, and this is how you use them."
>
> Same for wikis and "Ask LIbreOffice".  I didn't know "Ask LibreOffice" 
> even existed until your message.  I, and the people I know, don't live 
> on LO, their smartphones, tablets, living their lives there.  The 
> computer is a tool, not a virtual reality to live in.
>
> I think every download package should include some kind of messaging of
> how and where to get help via some kind of splash screen (or something 
> similar) letting new users know of these help options, and how to get
> to them.

Are the support channels listed via a menu entry such as Help->Support? I'm not currently at a 
computer so I can't check. 

> > If a user signs up and opens a bug report, that's because it is
> > significant for him. Is this procedure relevant if the bug report is
> > left unanswered for 2 years? Is this user going to keep reporting
> > additional bugs? Evidently, solving bugs requires man power, so
> > finding a simpler method to report "you have a st*pid typo" might
> > help reduce wasted time, for both developers and users.

Very true. It might even be a stepping stone for getting new people involved in the process of 
providing support for others. I know that I would gladly perform proof reading and editing support 
functions if I only knew where to go. I would even be willing to endure a moderately tortuous 
registration process to get started with this support functionality.

> > So, making the contact methods more relevant, easier (unified?) sign
> > up procedures and actually maintaining "active" and relevant the
> > different contact channels would contribute to receive more feedback
> > and eventually reduce wasted time.
>
> I would add, if  there are more than one channel that supports users, 
> like this mailing list, the contents should be spread across all the 
> channels.  Then it doesn't matter which method of support is desired by
> the user, the user has access to all possible support answers from 
> individuals, and the same question is less likely to be asked multiple 
> places.
>
> > I am writing not to complain, but to voice my personal view of some
> > of the ways to improve user's involvement in LibreOffice. I admit I
> > am not sure if any of these changes would be the most effective use
> > of man-power, so I'm not going to call these "recommendations". These
> > might be potential considerations for potential improvements. Whether
> > they are _effective_ use of man-power, I don't really know.



-- 
Jim
Sent using K-9 on an Android phone.

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