Re: [libreoffice-users] Engaging users: initial results of the survey

John,

Okay, that sounds different from what I initially understood. :-)
I thought you wanted to restart the survey. Anyway, thanks for the tip.
We'll take more care about phrasing what we want in the first place
next time. However, I suggest you read the archives  of our marketing
list during the month of October to see our discussions. 

Best,

Charles.


Le Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:21:42 -0700,
John Meyer <john.l.meyer@gmail.com> a écrit :

> Charles,
>
>       What's expensive about setting up a mailing list dedicated to
> the survey and asking internally "what do we want to know about users
> and how do we want to find out about it"?  Or doing some requests for
> volunteers from local university statistic students? Your volunteers
> don't necessarily have to start from the community you are surveying
> Professionalism is not about cost; it's about preparation.  And I
> wouldn't recommend another survey.  At least, I wouldn't recommend it
> yet.  If you don't have money, you do have time.  Take six months to a
> year to get the right elements in place. In the meantime, use less
> formal ways to explore what you want to know about users (feedback
> forms, mailing lists, etc).
>
>
>
> On 11/12/2013 8:02 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > I'm well aware on how to run a project;  and many comments and
> > critiques I have read so far are valid. Just keep in mind that we're
> > not going to run just another survey because according to some, it
> > wasn't granular enough (btw: there are others who would object to
> > your methodology as being too expensive to organize or as
> > unncessary). Running the survey again would end up confusing the
> > users who already answered. 
> >
> > If you seriously would like to get involved, you should  - I mean
> > it, there's no sarcasm. 
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Charles. 
> >
> >
> > Le Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:54:15 -0700,
> > John Meyer <johnmeyer@pueblocomputing.com> a écrit :
> >
> > > Okay,  I point out problems and you're response is "you don't like
> > > it you can run out your own survey" and then say I'm inaccurate
> > > without stating why I'm inaccurate with a solicitation for
> > > donations in the previous e-mail.  Do you see the major issue
> > > here?  Flies, honey, vinegar.
> > >
> > > I don't know how your project works, but if you're not doing the
> > > proper work beforehand I don't know how it can work.  Ask anybody
> > > who's run any successful project.  Heck, even the leaders of failed
> > > projects can tell you.  They probably have more information.
> > > First, you define your goals.  Next you gather and prepare your
> > > resources.  You do a test run, maybe more than one and hope you
> > > have enough time.  You have people with specific knowledge
> > > critique and make adjustments.  Finally you run the project, and
> > > afterwards you analyze and make improvements for the next time.
> > > Those principals apply whether you're running a for profit project
> > > or a non profit. And that would be the bare bones work if I was
> > > running a local project. You're going global, which involves
> > > understanding cultural differences as well.  That is not the type
> > > of thing I would do with an ad hoc team with nobody who has any
> > > experience in what I was doing in the first place. Like I said,
> > > define the questions, gather the mailing list.  And if you don't
> > > have access to anybody with experience in statistics, don't launch
> > > until you do.  A badly done survey is worse than none at all.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/12/2013 7:38 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > > > Le Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:29:47 -0700,
> > > > John Meyer <johnmeyer@pueblocomputing.com> a écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > You made a survey without a survey statistician on your team.
> > > > > Did you send out a request for such a person on the mailing
> > > > > lists to advise you before you put together the survey?  Did you
> > > > > have a clear and concise question that you wanted to answer
> > > > > before you developed the survey questions?  Did you run the
> > > > > questions by an aforementioned professional in the staff and
> > > > > check for confirmation bias?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No. And apparently you have little awareness of how our project
> > > > works. But  you make a couple of valid points. 
> > > >
> > > > > I am not a professional statistician, and that's just what I
> > > > > spotted.  I have covered surveys as a journalist in my previous
> > > > > career, though.  And I also am a veteran of setting up business
> > > > > projects.  A survey statistician would have a lot more to say I
> > > > > am sure.  And we're not even starting on the analysis.  In fact,
> > > > > I'd throw out the analysis and the results and start anew.
> > > > > First off, define "users" (end users, evangelists, business
> > > > > users?) and state the overall purpose of your survey in a single
> > > > > question. I regret some of the tone of the previous e-mail
> > > > > (first e-mail prior to coffee), but there's nothing here to work
> > > > > with.  You've got 300 self-selected users with at least two
> > > > > major questions in one survey that you did not break out by
> > > > > region, sex, profession. You want results, you need good data
> > > > > underneath.
> > > >
> > > > You know, aside being rather inaccurate, you're welcome to run
> > > > another survey. We're always looking for more volunteers. And I'm
> > > > glad to help you on this, so please go ahead.
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > > Charles. 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/12/2013 7:04 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > > > > > Le Tue, 12 Nov 2013 06:57:20 -0700,
> > > > > > John Meyer <johnmeyer@pueblocomputing.com> a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/10/2013 11:46 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As there were some exchanges about the survey here and as I
> > > > > > > > advertised it on this mailing list as well, I thought you
> > > > > > > > might be interested by my initial analysis:
> > > > > > > > http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2013/11/10/users-the-final-frontier/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for your participation!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.  The survey seems to be a Self seLected Opinion Poll (SLOP),
> > > > > > > so I'm taking it with a grain of salt the size of the Sears
> > > > > > > Tower. There's no margin of error included in the poll either
> > > > > > > and based upon the sample as being from the mailing lists
> > > > > > > (where people are generally active anyway) I'd say it's fairly
> > > > > > > skewed. 2.  The conclusions are generic, wishy-washy and are
> > > > > > > based on guesses and assumptions with no hard underlying
> > > > > > > data.  How much in contributions has LibreOffice raised?  Does
> > > > > > > that fit in with what the survey said? Where is the Quality
> > > > > > > Assurance in the web site? And why would an end user be
> > > > > > > interested in that? 3.  User support and quality assurance do
> > > > > > > not require too much time or technical knowledge.  Remind me
> > > > > > > not to hire you for either of those tasks in my business.
> > > > > > > Those are things that professional companies hire entire other
> > > > > > > companies to do.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd give this project an F in a freshman statistics class, and
> > > > > > > would not base any strategy off of this "survey"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks John, I'll take it  from your comment that
> > > > > >  1) you are either a survey professional and you only wait for
> > > > > > the next survey to contribute your time designing it
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and/or 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  2) you will contribute the costs of hiring a market research
> > > > > > firm the next time we need a survey. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allegedly, I and none of the other people who designed the
> > > > > > survey are professional survey designers. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,



-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder, The Document Foundation,
Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
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Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.


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