Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice cover photo - Google+

Hello Marc,

Le vendredi 21 décembre 2012 à 12:14 -0500, Marc Paré a écrit :
> Le 2012-12-21 11:09, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>
> > So we agree on the diagnostic only in part, and disagree on the
> > remedy ;-) . You are much more optimistic than I am on the brand
> > recognition. For sure we had tremendous results but the brand
> > recognition is not where it should be. That's where we disagree on the
> > diagnostic. On the remedy, we disagree precisely on the fact that you
> > feel we would confuse the community and the product (did I get that
> > right?) with one logo, as we're changing our marketing strategy. I beg
> > to differ in that I'm saying the opposite: product and community are one
> > and the same. Another detail: we hadn't a marketing strategy before. We
> > had an emphasis on the product by default, because no one ever advocated
> > anything contrary to that, and even then we never did what it took to
> > push the product.
> >
> > Best,
>
> Hmm, not sure about the "... but the brand recognition is not where it 
> should be ..." statement as we had not really talked about market 
> penetration numbers that we had to reach. We did hold regular meetings 
> from Oct 25th 2010 (from when I organized the wiki pages, there were 
> some other confcalls before this but they were not well documented) up 
> until July 4th 2011 (I was usually the secretary) and you'll find the 
> notes on the wiki[1]. I was not available for approximately 6-7 months 
> due to surgeries. These meetings were chaired by mostly Florian, Italo 
> (and at the time, Drew). So, there was some strategy implemented, which 
> came from the top-down. Members with experience had the lead.

Yes indeed. But you know just as well as I do, that building such a team
and organizing marketing is a tremendously time consuming task... I
might give the impression to be overly critical; if that's the case it's
not what I would like to confer. But my point is that we're only at  the
very beginning of the journey, and we need to continue :-)
> As well, during this period and up-till-now, Italo has been the defacto 
> marketing lead, where any serious decisions were/are taken by him. 
> Unless anything has changed, Italo is still the marketing team lead.


I indeed think that you didn't get the memo (anyone follows the
board-discuss list here?). Marketing has been broken into two
"meta-tasks" or team  since this summer . Italo is very much in charge
of Marketing/Communications (MarCom) and I am in charge of the strategic
marketing, which does not involve communications, but does include all
the "rear" operations  that marketing needs, as well as community
building. Of course, no one is nitpicking and having preseances, so you
will see Italo here just as often as before, and we are not locked in
our clusters but are working jointly all together in a smooth way (which
we've been doing in the past). 
> So, the marketing team was at least quite busy, putting into action 
> initiatives that were later taken on by other groups. You only need to 
> tour the marketing team wiki pages to see the end-product (even if 
> disorganized -- my plans were/are still to organize these pages). My 
> most recent concerns, as you know, was the lack of design-member help 
> for marketing initiatives which go by the wayside if there is no such 
> help. At one point, the marketing team was quite organized  and had an 
> agreed production process with the design team which worked quite 
> well[2][3] (which led to the creation of the Visual Elements Resources 
> wiki page for the Marketing and Design Teams[3]). But, for some reason, 
> UX has taken over and there is now little time left for anything else. 
> The same concerns I voiced previously (apologies, I can't find the page 
> right now) were also echoed by KJ just recently on the design list.

My impression is that it's fundamentally a resources problem, and that's
leading to the issue you're describing. 

> The LibreOffice product, in my opinion, would not be where it is today, 
> without the initial cooperation between teams and advocacy. Yup, your 
> view is more pessimistic than mine. A lot has been achieved in just 2 
> years of market presence.

Of course, no one is saying the contrary! Obviously, our project and
brand is two years old. It's not a long time, but we are in an unique
position where we need to establish our brand (we can consider it
"established") against people's lack of awareness AND against a brand
many of us had been contributing to  before (OpenOffice). Because of
that the dilemna is interesting, but it's a bit like having twice the
size of the challenge. In light of these factors, we indeed did a hack
of a great job, and you (and others here) can definitely be proud of the
work that's been done here. Yet we're only starting the journey here...

> As for the logo dilemma, would the use of a community logo and a product 
> logo confuse? No. Would we confuse the community and users/enterprises 
> if we used one logo? Yes. Unfortunately, we started off with a "product 
> logo" and IMO we should work towards another similar logo but with very 
> subtle differences to identify our community.
>
> Do we need a product logo? Yes, we absolutely need a product logo. 
> Without a product logo, we risk confusing corporate/enterprise adoption 
> and to a lesser extent user adoption. Competition in the OfficeSuite 
> universe is fierce and going without a product logo does not seem like a 
> good plan. Do we need a community logo? Yes, because we need to 
> community build and people get that "fuzzy warm" feeling when they cozy 
> up to a community logo.
>
> Hope this clears up my opinions on this a bit.


I now understand many of your points above, although I still don't get
yours on the community logo.

Cheers,

Charles.



> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>
> [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls
> [2] 
> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentation.libreoffice.marketing/2627
> [3] 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#Marketing_Team
> [4] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements
>
>
> -- 
> Marc Paré
> Marc@MarcPare.com
> http://www.parEntreprise.com
> parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
> parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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