Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:04 -0600, Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl> wrote:

> Hi Alexandro,
>
> Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32)
> > On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl> wrote:
>
> > > I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first ..
> > >
> > > Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55)
> > >
> > > > There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we
> > > > introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would  
> > > > be
> > >
> > > can you pls show me the letter?
> >
> > Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting
> > recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording.
> > http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011
>
> Thanks for the link.
> Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and OOo4kids on  
> one list.
> This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not sure  
> how that works.
> Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that  
> your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads "OpenOffice.org  
> Español" ..

Is no difference from the TDF leading (at least a the beginning) to  
ooodev.org the german group. But we will be changing it to oooES  
eventually, like many other groups we are building form the infrastructure  
that we had in OOo and the change is not organized on a big Checklist that  
we can just modify in one process. However the way it works is similar to  
many organizations that were formed behind the native-lang originally.


> A thing that is not clear to me, is how to deal with the situation that  
> there are many Spanish speaking countries, where people must be able to  
> find themselves encouraged and supported. Do you have any thoughts on  
> that? I mean, I remember quite some situations where you asked funding  
> to fly from Mexico to wherever to do a presentation.
> How many countries are already involved and what are their ideas?

The group is a regional group, not a country specific group. The members  
are from different countries and very seldom do they repeat countries. Yes  
I did flying the most as the lead of the Spanish group. But minor flights  
were also funded by our budget for other members to do inner traveling in  
their countries.

Some ideas worked better for us than others, we held weekly conf calls and  
have been able to work together quite well. So we sync our presentations  
for campaigns like FLISOL which is the latin american installfests,  
syncronizing the message. There still some countries in the region that  
has no contributers specially the smaller countries and others that are  
very active. The idea is to be able to 'push' the efforts to this  
countries.


> There are some examples from the past years, mostly in the certification  
> project, where I found your way of communicating not supportive for  
> sharing and growing involvement, to say it brief.
> To me that is of great concern in every situation and especially our  
> current one, where we start to build connections and processes.

I also found my share of lack of communication from the processes that  
were stablish by the OOo team. There was a lot of unwritten and  
undocumented process due to discovery came to work out in the end. The  
process was also slow and sometimes uncertain (we weren't sure if things  
were done, or we still miss things to do).

> So though I can see advantages for l10n and users (as Roman clearly  
> explained) I am not yet convinced that the proposed situation is what we  
> really want for a strong The Document Foundation and LibreOffice.
> Therefore I write my concerns, so that you may take the opportunity to  
> explain or take additional action.

Well I will suggest to take this the other way around. Starting from  
scratch usually takes time to start getting to known what to do. So most  
of the things still need to be invented, discovered. Lists are usually  
empty and slowly growing. Bringing a group with experience might already  
have a set of processes and organization that could speed development.

Example, l10n is done in pootle, because many people have experience from  
OOo and already understand the tool. If the people coming here didn't had  
that experience, they will probably questioned and compare pootle with  
other tools. Similar to what is happening on the website@ list comparing  
Drupal vs Silver???.

Comparing those two, we can have localizators working on what they do  
faster than, content creators on their app. Same thing can be said with  
using mediawiki and maybe PhpBB or similars.

The letter was signed up by a team that already have experience working on  
the localization of OOo for many versions, there are builders,  
localizators, editors, content creators and organizers/moderators. Now I  
am not sure what would 'strong' mean in this sense, because it can be  
viewed that 'outsourcing' the work to a different brand  
(@es.libreoffice.org vs @oooes.org) mailing list domain could make it  
weaker. However I would say that actually having people with experience  
could make at least more effective on the short term.

Finally we have been looking what other 'sub-communities' like OOoAuthors  
and Forums have done, as they branch out to support LibreOffice as well as  
hosting their previous work. That way the knowledge and experience gets  
preserves and work keeps developing with no or small interuptions.

>   ...
>
>
> > > > SC, but the conversation seem to make sense to avoid duplication of
> > > > efforts due to breach communications. Also we already present a
> > > > framework of interaction with third party groups that would also  
> > > > benefit
> > > > from the efforts we are coordinated.
> > >
> > > and explain what you mean with this?
>
> Can you pls explain this too?

I am reffering to the picture that you see at the end of the letter. Where  
we support each project infrastructure (wiki, pootle, webdev etc). But we  
join the ML so that the communication is not 'pulverized'.

> Thanks & kind regards,
> Cor


--
Alexandro Colorado

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