Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3

Hello Alexandro,

Le Sun, 14 Nov 2010 21:54:05 -0600,
"Alexandro Colorado" <jza@openoffice.org> a écrit :

> On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:04 -0600, Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alexandro,
> >
> > Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32)
> > > On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first ..
> > > >
> > > > Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55)
> > > >
> > > > > There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting
> > > > > where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper
> > > > > conference would be
> > > >
> > > > can you pls show me the letter?
> > >
> > > Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing
> > > meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording.
> > > http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011
> >
> > Thanks for the link.
> > Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and
> > OOo4kids on one list.
> > This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not
> > sure how that works.

Well, that rests one technical assumption that will end up being wrong
very quickly: that LibreOffice will keep up the same codebase and
follow OOo. I think problems will arise as soon as our 3.4. 

> > Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange
> > that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads
> > "OpenOffice.org Español" ..
>
> Is no difference from the TDF leading (at least a the beginning) to  
> ooodev.org the german group. But we will be changing it to oooES  
> eventually, like many other groups we are building form the
> infrastructure that we had in OOo and the change is not organized on
> a big Checklist that we can just modify in one process. However the
> way it works is similar to many organizations that were formed behind
> the native-lang originally.


No, and again you're assuming two things:
1) that we work with a similar structure as OOo does
2) that OOoES is like the German Association. It's not, first because
the German association only acts as the interim structure for the
foundation and not at all as a regional group; second because you
pretend OOoES is representative of the Spanish community of
contributors, which it isn't. Hence my note on the ES TDF wiki page:
it's all right to point to OOoES, but please point to the spanish TDF
lists and do not convey the message that you're handling the work for
us: you're not representing us in any way.



> > A thing that is not clear to me, is how to deal with the situation
> > that there are many Spanish speaking countries, where people must
> > be able to find themselves encouraged and supported. Do you have
> > any thoughts on that? I mean, I remember quite some situations
> > where you asked funding to fly from Mexico to wherever to do a
> > presentation. How many countries are already involved and what are
> > their ideas?
>
> The group is a regional group, not a country specific group. The
> members are from different countries and very seldom do they repeat
> countries. Yes I did flying the most as the lead of the Spanish
> group. But minor flights were also funded by our budget for other
> members to do inner traveling in their countries.
>
> Some ideas worked better for us than others, we held weekly conf
> calls and have been able to work together quite well. So we sync our
> presentations for campaigns like FLISOL which is the latin american
> installfests, syncronizing the message. There still some countries in
> the region that has no contributers specially the smaller countries
> and others that are very active. The idea is to be able to 'push' the
> efforts to this countries.
>
>
> > There are some examples from the past years, mostly in the
> > certification project, where I found your way of communicating not
> > supportive for sharing and growing involvement, to say it brief.
> > To me that is of great concern in every situation and especially
> > our current one, where we start to build connections and processes.
>
> I also found my share of lack of communication from the processes
> that were stablish by the OOo team. There was a lot of unwritten and  
> undocumented process due to discovery came to work out in the end.
> The process was also slow and sometimes uncertain (we weren't sure if
> things were done, or we still miss things to do).
>
> > So though I can see advantages for l10n and users (as Roman
> > clearly explained) I am not yet convinced that the proposed
> > situation is what we really want for a strong The Document
> > Foundation and LibreOffice. Therefore I write my concerns, so that
> > you may take the opportunity to explain or take additional action.
>
> Well I will suggest to take this the other way around. Starting from  
> scratch usually takes time to start getting to known what to do. So
> most of the things still need to be invented, discovered. Lists are
> usually empty and slowly growing. Bringing a group with experience
> might already have a set of processes and organization that could
> speed development.


You again assume things on your own: 
1) that we have no experience
2) that we want to follow your way. 
... let us choose our own way, our own processes, thank you.

best,
Charles. 



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