Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-design] APP/Online LibreOffice

Hi Andrew, Astron, Charles, all!

Interesting discussion so far :-)

Am Samstag, den 22.10.2011, 17:18 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> >  I'll try to summarise what is necessary for LibreOffice Online (I hope
> >
> > this won't madden you):
>
> Im not mad, im just a bit fustrated and trying to make every one see why we
> need to get this rolling soon.

I think everybody sees the need that adaptations are required, but the
perceived urgency might vary.

Why?
      * Do we know what the devs who make LibreOffice compile on other
        platforms do have in mind?
      * Does porting to Android/iOS tell us anything about the devices
        and their input devices that will get supported?
      * Does spending less effort on LibreOffice Desktop help to improve
        future UIs on other platforms?
      * Do we know what LibreOffice UI elements need to be adapted
        (without the need to have developers looking at the code)?
      * Do we have sufficient expertise on how an e.g. Android program
        needs to behave / look like?
      * ...


[...]
> > * some tweaks to floating toolbars and other window management things
> > – no idea, if there's anything there, but probably not a major effort.
>
> are you talking code or GUI here. because here is a link to what Mirek has
> done to the floatbars http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Trs-float.png

Astron, there is some very basic window management available that
currently handles the windows shown in the browser. Very basic means
that e.g. the floating toolbars do have doubled window titles.

> From my point-of-view, the final solution should not show LibO in a
browser window, but the browser window should appear like LibO. But,
that also means that we need some dedicated handling for toolbars (and
other stuff).

But, there is other stuff that needs to be handled first ... Michael has
a good set of open points to be addressed ;-)

> This is very different for Android and IOS, because on both platforms,
> > LibreOffice would need a native, touch-centric port. In other words, a
>  complete UI rewrite
>
> of corse the UI for these devices will be different. it will have to be
> drasticly different. we should try to make it work as much like the desktop
> as we can but still be as simplistic as possible. for these devises we do
> not want it to be complicated. because thats what the devices were made
> for, simplicity.

That needs some refinement from my point-of-view. The devices running
Android, iOS were made for different tasks ... and became popular for
that. Today, people demand to use those devices for different tasks as
well - sometimes it works well, sometimes it does not.

My question here is, what tasks can be improved / are required for
LibreOffice on such platforms. What set of functionality can be derived
for such cases? What tasks will be exclusive for a "classical desktop"?
What differentiates LibreOffice on Android/iOS from normal ODF viewers?
(You got the point, I guess.)

It is possible to work on most of these questions without developer
support. Quite the contrary - I assume these answers will be quite
helpful for the developers once they have solved the very basic
technical difficulties.

[...]

> im not saying that development will stop ether, bugs will be reported and
> fixed. some features will be added... but will the UI be improved if we
> start on two new projects... I think not.

Why do you think that? As we have different objectives, each developer
has his own goal (sometimes aligned with the goal of the company he
works for *g*). That means some of them care for the Desktop UI, some
might care about the iOS/Android UI

What I perceived at the LibreOffice Conference is, that developers do
care about the LibreOffice we have, and that there are more support
requests by them than we (on libreoffice-ux-advise) do currently handle
(providing facts, collect requirements, do competition analysis, provide
UI proposals, test daily builds, ...).

Here, again, a hint towards the presentation we gave at the LibreOffice
Conference:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/e/e6/2011-10-15v3_LibOCon_Non-Hacker-Tasks_Schnabel-Noack.pdf

[...]

So finally, what's the takeaway of my mail?
      * Improving the "normal" LibreOffice will help to get a better
        product on other platforms as well. But that needs helping
        hands.
      * People who are interested can work on the iOS/Android stuff
        without the need to convince developers or the whole community
        in advance. There is a lot "theoretical" stuff that can be done,
        even before developers touch the visible parts of the UI.

Cheers,
Christoph


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