Re: How development develops ... (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] citrus)

Hello


> Really? Does anybody specified the Zoom slider or the appearance menu
> behavior? How many people assisted developers to define, document and
> test the issues in the bug tracker? Or any other change?


I was just going to submit the bug for it was my complaint.


> I think there is a big misunderstanding, since the community isn't yet
> that close together as I would like it to be. For example, there are
> many new developers who try to deal with the code - which is incredibly
> difficult. Many of the features / changes are not (reasonable) perfect
> yet ... there is no (simple) way to request improvements.

I was mearly asking whether the develpers are working on this at all.

Maybe this presentation sheds some light on how developers currently
> address changes:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fosdemtalks?gl=DE#p/u/8/-Olx3EvJMl0


iv seen this video, it was good. its proboble because of this video that I
am apart of this team.


> But, to me, small improvements are a chance
> to work together with the individual developers and to make them aware
> of user needs. That also means that UI changes (step by step) are
> implemented.

I know that this is all going to have to change little by little. this is
not going to change over night. is there a millstone plan put in place so
that we can even start on changing the UI.


> But if you are a designer with some understanding for development needs:
> What can you do now to improve LibreOffice?


I am not a developer, at this point in time I can do nothing help. aside
from bug reports. which I will do but I wanted to ask you guys what was
going on before I just start making bug reports.


>  There are so many topics that could be addressed ... it is just picking
> them. Some of them are more or less related to what Citrus addressed. Some
> are related to artwork / branding improvements.


I get this, I love what you guys have done here. I have been helping where I
can with all the artwork / branding stuff. I just want to get this to the
point where we can start doing some major improvments to the UI. because
right now its freaking ugly.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Christoph Noack <christoph@dogmatux.com>wrote:

> Hi Andrew!
>
> I lack a bit time, so I'll try to comment what's most important to me at
> the moment. Okay?
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 07.09.2011, 13:20 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> chanceto
> > > completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons).
> >
> >
> > I know that this would be hard to do in one shot, and I like that he made
> up
> > some baby steps to get the citrus UI implemented.  I think that we need
> to
> > start on these baby steps. other wise the dev team will just keep adding
> > more and more features and fixing bugs till there face is blue, and at
> the
> > end of the day the software still looks like crap and no one will use it
> > because the UI is from 10 years ago.
>
> Oh, its 20 years already ;-)
>
> [...]
>
> > Instead, it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > Development, QA, ...
> [...]
>
> > > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > > has been mentioned some days ago).
> >
> > but are they getting dealt with. a moth or two ago we where talking about
> > the aperence menu and how it should be changed. is that getting worked on
> or
> > at least on the todo list.
>
> Really? Does anybody specified the Zoom slider or the appearance menu
> behavior? How many people assisted developers to define, document and
> test the issues in the bug tracker? Or any other change?
>
> I think there is a big misunderstanding, since the community isn't yet
> that close together as I would like it to be. For example, there are
> many new developers who try to deal with the code - which is incredibly
> difficult. Many of the features / changes are not (reasonable) perfect
> yet ... there is no (simple) way to request improvements.
>
> Maybe this presentation sheds some light on how developers currently
> address changes:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fosdemtalks?gl=DE#p/u/8/-Olx3EvJMl0
>
> I don't share all the views. But, to me, small improvements are a chance
> to work together with the individual developers and to make them aware
> of user needs. That also means that UI changes (step by step) are
> implemented.
>
> [...]
> > I hope I did not sound mean or harsh. I just feel so out of the loop with
> > all this, I don't know if any thing is getting done. hopefully the LO con
> > will shed some light on this. I hope that they video it so that we who
> are
> > not going to be there can see whats going on.  I would hate to read all
> that
> > is going on there.
>
> Mmh, its not that harsh but somehow understandable - and out of the loop
> is very bad, so please ask questions. Everybody will benefit, I bet.
>
> But if you are a designer with some understanding for development needs:
> What can you do now to improve LibreOffice? There are so many topics
> that could be addressed ... it is just picking them. Some of them are
> more or less related to what Citrus addressed. Some are related to
> artwork / branding improvements. Others are related to watch the
> developers and their commit messages. Or to asking individual developers
> to assist them - that brings you much closer than viewing conference
> videos. :-)
>
> So how can I help here?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Christoph Noack <christoph@dogmatux.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andrew!
> > >
> > > Am Montag, den 05.09.2011, 20:16 -0400 schrieb Andrew Pullins:
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > Does any one know what has happened to the guy designing the "Citrus
> UI."
> > >  I
> > > > have been trying to get a hold of him so we can collaborate on his UI
> > > > designs. I am really interested in making LibreOffice look good, and
> his
> > > > designs are great.
> > >
> > > Yep, there are some terrific ideas - he was (and I hope: is) with us
> > > since quite some time. He also was so kind to join our ideas collection
> > > when we've collected menu alternatives within the OpenOffice.org
> > > Renaissance project. Here is his proposal:
> > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Miroslav_Mazel
> > >
> > > > It is something I would say that we need to be working
> > > > toward.  What is going on with LibreOffice right now.  Other than
> bugs
> > > > getting fixed, what else is going on?
> > >
> > > It depends on the point-of-view ... currently I'd say there is no
> chance
> > > to completely revise the UI in one-shot (for several reasons). Instead,
> > > it would be good to focus on manageable improvements for Design,
> > > Development, QA, ...
> > >
> > > There have been regular posts on what is wrong with details of the UI -
> > > it just needs somebody to take care of that (e.g. the zoom slider which
> > > has been mentioned some days ago). That should help us to in a position
> > > for larger changes.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Christoh
> > >
> > >
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