Re: [libreoffice-design] [UX] organizing UX work on menus (was: Ribbons and Background color UX)

Hi Joed, Phil, all,

jlopez777 schrieb:
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Phil Jackson<sapient@clear.net.nz>  wrote:
>
> > Hi JL
> >
> > We need to have some sort of structured approach.  So any suggestions are
> > welcome - wiki or whatever.
>
> I think a wiki could work, I can get one up.

You probably know that we have a wiki exactly for this (and other) 
purpose(s):

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org

There is already a whiteboard area to work on such topics:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards

Of course this area needs some thorough polishing (categories, links to 
single pages for each topic ...), but here would be the best place to 
start with the general collection not only of ideas but also on defining 
the goals and the way to reach them.

> > Is there some sort of tool we can use to poll members easily so we can get
> > an accurate idea of what ideas are popular and what are not?

UX doesn't mean to poll members, but to get an idea what all our user 
use and think - while the majority of them has never been able to join a 
discussion on a mailing list (and thus all our contributions in this 
area are just input from one very small group inside our user base).

Björn proposed some time ago to introduce a facebook group where user 
can provide their feedback to certain topics - such an area would reach 
even more people than just our mailing list or wiki.
> >
>
> at the most basic sense, we can do a google docs form and make it public and
> link it to the wiki.

There already have been discussions on adding a voting extension to the 
wiki - don't know at the moment how far this has gone. Someone might ask 
at the website list about this...
> > We can make this a really democratic approach if is this is possible.

Don't know what you mean by "democratic" here. Of course we need the 
feedback of our user base. But decisions about implementation (or 
proposals for implementation) should not be based on such data alone.

Effort and work for implementation, impact on existing users, marketing 
consequences and our mission with platform independency are just a few 
points that have to be taken into account.

Sorry, democracy can only work, if all the people involved in the 
democratic decisions have the same information and understand it's 
importance to the entire community and our users...
> >
>
> I think we can to a certain degree. As long as we don't get stuck on syntax
> on questions for the polling, we would be okay. Obviously, we will have to
> take some sort of liberty of the starting point for how we frame the
> questions.

Of course - the only point to remember is what happened, when 
Renaissance started their work: They had to repeat every now and then 
that they don't copy MS ribbons - but they didn't manage to get the 
message through, that their approach is independent and different.
> > Otherwise does someone have a website page they can set up that design
> > members access and register their support for specific initiatives? This
> > would make it transparent to all.

I don't understand this question at all.

What we need is to define possible solutions for the question how to 
provide context sensitive menus along with an easy access to all the 
(other) menus (probably static).

We have to discuss these solutions and find out the best ones for 
LibreOffice.

I don't see how these tasks can become easier with simple votes.

You can vote here on the list on questions where a simple yes/no can 
help to find a common agreement. But for such a complex topic this is 
certainly the wrong tool.
> > In the present format we are not as effective as there are no formal
> > procedures or structures in place. [...]

You're right. Can you just create a wiki page proposing some procedures 
and structures?

Based on such a page we can discuss and define the necessary structures 
- and it may serve as information for new team members too.

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: I removed the long tail of old mails not relevant to this part of 
the discussion and changed the subject to a more appropriate topic.

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