On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Phil Jackson<sapient@clear.net.nz> wrote:
Hi JL
We need to have some sort of structured approach. So any suggestions are
welcome - wiki or whatever.
I think a wiki could work, I can get one up.
Is there some sort of tool we can use to poll members easily so we can get
an accurate idea of what ideas are popular and what are not?
at the most basic sense, we can do a google docs form and make it public and
link it to the wiki.
We can make this a really democratic approach if is this is possible.
I think we can to a certain degree. As long as we don't get stuck on syntax
on questions for the polling, we would be okay. Obviously, we will have to
take some sort of liberty of the starting point for how we frame the
questions.
Otherwise does someone have a website page they can set up that design
members access and register their support for specific initiatives? This
would make it transparent to all.
In the present format we are not as effective as there are no formal
procedures or structures in place. The sooner we do something that
formalises it, the sooner we can make the steps to make LibreOffice a very
usable system.
I agree and Im with ya 100%. Lets get things structured to make some
progress.
Cheers
Phil Jackson
On 5/27/2011 9:44 AM, jlopez777 wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Phil Jackson<sapient@clear.net.nz>
wrote:
Hi Scott
You're right on target about the ineffective vertical space that MS
allows
for and I like some of your sample screens. The vertical Word menu is a
very
clear way of presenting options without any ambiguity.
I'd like to work more closely with you on these types of design
decisions.
Have a look at Design\Whiteboards\InterfaceImprovement and get back to me
with your thoughts. The more of the design team in favour of a more
usable
approach increases the chances of getting changes made.
I agree! I think we should start a wiki (or start working on a wiki
already
in existence for this purpose) and some PRINCIPALS we can lay out to move
forward. I think most can agree that our main principal is a LibreOffice
"Facelift" update of some sorts...whether its a ribbon-ish or a vertical
supertoolbar or a hybrid of the two could be what we decide on later.
So who is in?
JL
Cheers
Phil Jackson
On 5/27/2011 2:45 AM, Scott Pledger wrote:
Hey all!
Sorry its been so long!! This is a topic that I've put a lot of thought
into
and one which I would love to work both the design and implementation
sides
of. Personally, I have an extreme dislike of the way that MS Office
handles
its ribbon layout. When you combine the Office 2011 ribbon and massive
taskbar found in Windows 7, the default set-up uses around 3 inches of
vertical space on my widescreen laptop, which means I have all of 5
(ish)
inches of viewing space to actually see the document I am working on,
whereas I still have all 10 or so inches horizontally that is mostly
wasted
space. I think that the shift in the way that monitor manufacturers
design
new products is something that almost every other office software has
essentially ignored. I think that this above almost anything else
should
take precedent with any kind of UI redesign because this shift in
paradigm
doesn't seem to be going away, no matter how much I wish it would.
With this in mind, I think that using a context-based toolbar system is
essential. For instance, when I have an image selected, I see little to
no
reason for a font/text-formatting toolbar to be visible nor do I think
that
having floating toolbars just pop up is the best solution as the eye is
attracted to movement and this is a major distraction. Having a static
area
on the screen where these context-based toolbars might appear would make
a
lot of sense because we can just fade the toolbars in (or something
along
those lines) based on what the user has selected without drastic screen
changes. Also, I think that another great feature of a redesign might
be
previews of what effect clicking on a button would have on the document.
For instance, hovering the cursor over the 'Bold' button would show in
the
preview area how clicking this would affect the text in question.
Additionally, I definitely agree with Bernhard that we really need to
have
a
single place to throw ideas around.
These are just a few of the details that I've been thinking about with
the
posts I sent about a month ago of a design concept (source can be
downloaded
at http://pledgecomputers.com/LibreOffice/Redesign/Concept.odg or as a
pdf
at http://pledgecomputers.com/LibreOffice/Redesign/Concept.pdf ). Its
really early on right now and just details the basic idea, but I think
it
could serve as a good starting point for a UX overhaul. Thoughts
anyone?
Scott
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 07:13, Bernhard Dippold<
bernhard@familie-dippold.at
wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for stepping in here so late, especially as this topic has been
discussed over and over again in OOo UX (Renaissance) and here
in LibreOffice too.
Irrelevant of the fact that some people understand the word "ribbon"
as a red flag they start to rant against, we neither copy any
competitor's
design decisions without really good reasons nor we drop support to
our present users just because we want to establish something "new"
and "cool".
I'm quite sure that we'll be able to combine a static menu structure
with
a context sensitive one and provide this to the user in an easy-to-use
and eye-pleasing way. And this structure will be at least as
configurable
as the present UI.
You all are right that this needs thorough development and research -
it's one of our most important tasks for the next months and years.
But please stop discussing the word "ribbon" and what MS created
by using this word - this keeps us away from real work on LibreOffice
design.
Create a wiki page containing our UI goals - for all of our target
groups.
Start defining the context sensitive areas and find out how they can be
accessed via static menus without double effort.
Have a look what Renaissance already did on OOo - and use these
results as basis for your own work.
We have many areas where our presence is really important - this topic
is one of them.
But we should avoid to discuss details like graphical approach, menu
positioning and so on: The first thing to do is defining the
functionality
- form
will follow function when we really know how it should work...
Best regards
Bernhard
PS: And please keep in mind, that we need to convince our developers to
work
in this area - otherwise none of our ideas will come true...
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