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Hi Sophie

I have answered Jean-Baptiste on the French mailist but will try to give you the gist of my answer here as well for others to read. Michael will chime in as well, I am sure.

We all have to remember that some of these tools are being built into the Drupal site in order to make it all easier for us to work as well as to have access to other areas that we are not accustomed to. For example, some of our membership may have never had a chance to visit different localised sites due to the language barrier, forums, wiki pages etc. By building in automatic translation tools, we can then use the word "enable" in our description of our LibreOffice site. We can then assure members/visitors that the translation tools will enable them to visit any corner of the site without the accompanying language barrier. Certainly, I would propose that most if not all people would agree that the translations may, at times, not be 100% accurate, but it will still give the members/visitors the sense/meaning of the pages visited as well as enlighten them to the other contributing localised members of the LibreOffice project.

A good example where such a tool would come in handy is exactly this thread. How many more people would contribute to this particular thread is the automatic translation tools allowed them the opportunity to view/read these threads. OR for that matter how many more people would participate on the Drupal Website Development Team if the translation tools would help.

Of course, this will all be put to test when the tools and Drupal test-site are installed. At that time, we can all share our experiences of the translation tools and decide whether or not they could be used before the site goes live.

BTW, a good suggestion that Jean-Sebastien had was to offer a button whereby the member/visitor could either turn on/off the translation tools as well as an offer to translate the page for the site.

Le 2010-11-22 12:58, Sophie Gautier a écrit :
Hi Michael, all,
On 22/11/2010 04:32, Michael Wheatland wrote:
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Sophie Gautier
<> wrote:

You do not mean that the sites in different languages will look the same
with the same content? Language projects need to have their own
content and
do not rely on automatic translation because it deliver very poor
For the Drupal sites used on the OOo project, we manage the
translation of
the Drupal files on Pootle, so I think we can do the same here. But
for the
content, really each project should be able to manage it's own content.

And thanks all for your work :)

Kind regards

Automatic Translation will only occur on things which are considered
'instant communication' such as forums, mailing lists, and such.

Well, how will it works. We are used to have forums and mailing lists in
our own languages, with hundreds of mails/questions per day. So how will
it works between all the languages? For example between DE/FR/NL?
We are building a FAQ from these exchanges or a knowledge base, how will
it work?
The main section of the site (ie product information, support pages
etc.) will be manually translated either through pootle or directly on
the site.
If there is a page which does not have a native translation yet it
will display in english and allow the user to offer a translation
directly on the site if authorised as a translator.

But what for a page which is in French and has no equivalent in English
or is not relevant in Russian or in Sinhalese ? We do have contents
relative to a dedicated language that do not concern others? And, for my
own opinion, a fallback in English is just not acceptable.

Good question, where would the page be placed in that particular language if there was not equivalent page in the other language? In this case I would say that the page would only be translated by the translation tools as there would be no area for the page to reside. Unless it proved interesting and important to reside on a particular localised site, then, it could be formally translated by a human hand.

As far as falling back to English, IMO, seeing as this is the agreed international language for the site, it just makes sense to have it fallback to international English. We should all keep in mind that there will also be a localised English site just like all other supported languages and that the localised English site may also have pages that do not apply to any other languages. It should still be available publicly if a translation of that page is offered. We profess to be transparent, then there should be no problem with other groups reading our pages in translated form.

To summarise we will be maintaining the integrity and quality of all
of the 'important' content while allowing cross-language communication
in real time for community discussions. I envisage that this should
break down a lot of barriers for people getting involved in the

We break the barriers by providing support and content in the language
of the user and the contributors. Several native language teams have
already strong communities of users and contributors, this works really
well for the OOo NLC and we should not break this imho. For the French
team for example, they are already working on documentation, QA and
marketing. There is a forum running for thousands of users and mailing
list are quite busy too. I don't see how all this activity will run if
you translate the content from English as a central language to the
other languages, that will be seen has a very very negative approach. Or
may be I missed something?

I think so. The translation tools are not based on English being the predominant language. In fact, the Drupal team does not think this way and I would personally give the Drupal Dev Team a "gentle" reminder and nudge, that we are all a community of equals. For all we know, the best documentation could be found on the German or Spanish or French or Italian or ... sites. This attempt to use the translation tools is to enable access for everyone to all parts of the site. This will give all language groups a better view of each others organisations and will make for a better solid community. The Drupal team sees the translation tools more of a bonding tool rather than a fractious tool. The respect for the different participating languages are heralded.

I've added Jean-Baptiste Faure in CC of this mail, because I'm still
travelling and he will be able to answer the questions you may have
during the two next days where I'll be disconnected.

But again this is really important that the contents for the Native
Language sites are provided in the native language of this group by this
group and reflect the needs of this group, not the one of another
language, be it English, German or Japanese. I hope you understand
my/our concerns because the approach is really different, may be at the
opposite, of your proposal. This approach has permitted to build a
strong and efficient community in and shall be continued
the same way here.

In my mind, the same approach is still there. The only difference is that people will be able to navigate, for example, the French site and able to enjoy the work that you have created. So, if a Chinese visitor to the site wanted to see what the other sites had accomplished, that visitor could browse to the French site and read in her/his native language the pages on the French site.

At question here is more the accuracy of the translation tools and whether we are comfortable with its accuracy rate. This will only be evident once we start filling in the Drupal "test" localised sites with information and we (members) evaluate its success rate. Would we be content with a 60%-70%-80% etc. accuracy rate? I guess we will have to see. Personally, I am also curious as to how accurate the tools will be and whether or not they will be acceptable. We may decide to allow their use but with a clear caveat of its accuracy rate.

There is no emergency currently, we can still take time to speak about
it if you need to. I'll be back on Wednesday, don't hesitate to ask any
further questions or explanations you may need.

Kind regards

The translation tools question is up for debate and discussion by all members. I am of the opinion of let's install the tools and see. We can always remove them if they are not acceptable to the community. This all before the site goes live. We should at least try to make all sites accessible to all people.



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