Re: [libreoffice-users] ... not working ...

Hi :)
+1
I think that it's precisely because we see so much great development being done that we get excited 
about it and want more.  Also the fact that people can post bug-reports and even non-coders 
opinions do get listened makes us feel like we can "off-load".  So, a lot of the criticisms are not 
necessarily about LO specifically but about IT in general.  

ROSt talks about management decisions and hints about those being imposed on a workforce because 
that's the easier way for most of us on the Users List to understand it.  I suspect that most of us 
either do now or have at some point worked in traditional offices in mainstream management 
structures.  In LO i imagine the equivalent is leadership rather than management.  Inspiration and 
initiative rather than "just following orders".  Personal investment and interest in achieving 
goals.  It is leading to some impressive results.  

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Thu, 18/10/12, rost52 <bugquestcontri@online.de> wrote:

From: rost52 <bugquestcontri@online.de>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] ... not working ...
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Thursday, 18 October, 2012, 7:44

Hi Joel,

I think nobody blames the dev team for not working enough; in contrast all appreciate the work done 
by the dev team, being it new features or bug fixes.

For my understanding the concerns and opinions expressed here are more related to the ratio of devs 
being allocate to new features versus bug fixes. I think most of us also understand that first the 
number of devs is limited, and second the decision on how many devs on new features and how many on 
bug fixes is not an easy one. It is a management decisions, which can turn out right or wrong. And 
for management decisions one needs a lot of information. Speaking for myself I would regard these 
comments as additional information.

In this sense, please regard the messages in this forum as additional information, which 
could.should help decision makers to make decisions. And should a decision turn out to be wrong, 
there is no problem in changing course. The worst thing a manager can do is, not to make a 
decision. Without decision there is no change to the situation and thus no chance for improvement.

Let me thank here again all devs doing great jobs in developing and improving LO.

ROSt

Maybe I take C++ classes when I retire.... LO would be worth to do.




On 18.10.2012 14:36, Joel Madero wrote:
> Let alone regressions which are just accepted as a part of software development. Ultimately, 
> mistakes happen, and when a software code base has been transferred left and right and had a ton 
> of people randomly working on it (which is exactly what happens with open source software), a lot 
> of the job of a developer coming onto the project is just playing "catch up" and guessing and 
> what a previous developer was attempting to do. Again, I highly suggest taking a few C++ classes 
> and then it'll become apparent that the idea that we should stop everything and get every single 
> bug squashed (>5,000), is not a realistic stance. We should and we are (I guarantee this) doing 
> everything in our power to prioritize bugs and take care of those bugs that are
>
> a) most annoying
>
> b) affecting the most users
>
> c) resulting in data loss
>
> We are a young project and this is a goal that has been set. Being young, this is a goal, not a 
> fact. If you're interested in seeing how much work is done on a daily basis, just follow gerrit 
> (our code tracker), or sit in IRC and look at the incredibly brilliant conversations that happen 
> to find solutions to many of the problems that are being reported.
>
> Just to give another point, we are averaging more than 5 new reports PER DAY. Our QA team is a 
> group of volunteers no more than 7 or 8 strong. Each of these bugs has to go through a long 
> process just to verify, ensure that it's not a duplicate, communicate with the user who reported 
> it, and then priortize it. That's JUST getting the bug confirmed, then it gets put into the stack 
> where a very small group of dedicated developers tackle them, one by one. A single bug can take a 
> week + to tackle (that's 40+ hours). Let's say the average bug takes 10 hours (a massive 
> understatement), that's 50,000 hours worth of work to tackle the 5,000 or so confirmed bugs.
>
> Seeing these off hand remarks about how we should develop the product is disheartening. I wish 
> that more people would take a class at their local community college, or take a free online 
> course, and start to put their thoughts to work on our code.
>
> Regards,
> Joel
>
> On 10/17/2012 10:23 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
> > On 10/18/2012 01:08 AM, Joel Madero wrote:
> > > On 10/17/2012 06:29 PM, anne-ology wrote:
> > > >          ... Thanks  :-)
> > > >                 maybe now more will realize what we're saying ;-)
> > >
> > > This is simply unrealistic. For anyone who has any experience with programming this would be 
> > > known. No offense but with a ratio of 100,000:1 or more users to developers, the idea that we 
> > > would just squash all bugs and stop releasing new versions isn't realistic at all and thus why 
> > > developers wouldn't respond to this recommendation. If you want to help I suggest taking some 
> > > C++ classes and getting involved with the code. Most of us are volunteers who do this with our 
> > > spare time, I hope you all keep that in mind
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Joel
> > Another problem for all programs in wide release is wide hardware variability in the Windows and 
> > Linux worlds especially when compared to Macs. There could be a very odd hardware/driver 
> > interaction that was never discovered in alpha, beta, or release candidate previews with 
> > specific hardware combinations.
> > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:07 AM, Pertti Rönnberg <ptjr@elisanet.fi> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > BRAVO Anne-Ology!!
> > > > > Exactly that message - only in other words -- I have repeatedly tried to
> > > > > tell to the LibO-experts (devs) since January:
> > > > > they must take a brake in developing and take a certain version (e.g.
> > > > > 3.4.xx) and make every module of the suite - Base included - absolutely
> > > > > free of bugs and inconsistencies both in programming and the instructions
> > > > > and especially the LibO-Help.
> > > > > Every feature shall have a clear explanation and a detailed guiding how-to
> > > > > in the LibO-Help -- easily understood by any average non-expert user.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously I've been crying in vain because I have not noticed any
> > > > > (re)actions -- the developing of new versions is continuing with the result
> > > > > of an increasing activity on this list.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have LibO3.4.6 installed (Win7) but avoid using it (Calc, Base) because
> > > > > I have better to do than struggle with problems.
> > > > > I would like to know which LibO version for the time being can be
> > > > > considered as the most reliable and productive -- especially regarding Base.
> > > > > It would also be interesting to see an (valid) evaluation of that reliable
> > > > > usability on a scale 1-10 for each of the the different modules of versions
> > > > > 3.4.xx, 3.5.xx.x, 3.6.xx.x
> > > > > Pertti Rönnberg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16.10.2012 18:15, anne-ology wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >           This is the reason I have no intention of updating from 3.4 until
> > > > > > ALL these bugs are worked out -
> > > > > >                then I'll update to 3.5; yes, I'll always be behind BUT I
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > have the hassles of these bugs  ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 9:22 AM, teatimest <teatimest@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been using v3.4 of LibreOffice. I updated to v3.6.2.2 and now the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > contents of documents are not indexed for search.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm using 64-bit Windows 7. The extension odt is checked for the indexing
> > > > > > > option. I also checked the "Index Properties and File Contents" in the
> > > > > > > Indexing Option in Windows.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When I search, doc files and ppt files appears in the result but not odt
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > odp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it just me or is this known bug? The same thing happened when I
> > > > > > > updated
> > > > > > > to v3.5 so I went back to v3.4 for the searchability. Is there any
> > > > > > > workaround?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tea



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