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Yes, I think we both (and I am sure that there are many more) want the same thing: LO being successful and known as the best Office package and available also for people who just cannot afford to buy an Office package.

I also understand that devs are easier to get for programming new features because this frontier work. I can understand this very well because I used to work on frontier work myself for many years.

However, I also learned that things must be made stable. My business now is nothing else but making operations stable. Coming from that point of view I only can encourage devs to put in all their pride in getting LO branches stable ASAP. I feel good when I get an operation stable and a dev can feel the same way. It might even be harder to get bugs out because it must first be understood what causes the bug.

If I would learn about a dev who removed a bug I reported, I thank him personally! (If there is a list where I can see it, I appreciate a lot information on where such a list is published on the web.)

I can not contribute more than bug reporting. I do this for all bugs I find and which I can document somehow. It takes me a lot of time - a loss in my productivity - but I am willing to do so. My small contribution to the LO project which I like. Currently I only can do this for my production version ( But I would actually like to run 2 versions on my PC: a stable one with almost no bugs, and a newer one with new features and bugs. (This idea was expressed already by Tom, anne-ology and maybe some other as well.) By doing so I can use time for searching bugs in the newer version, and when I am very busy (= I need a high productivity) I can just use the stable version. For me such a possibility would push the LO project forward at very high speed.

The success of SW is a combination of features and stability (= productivity increase). This means the right balance is needed. The right balance of dev power for new feature compared to dev power to fix bugs is the trick task which need to be done.

On 17.10.2012 18:51, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
I think we both want the same thing.  The question is how to get it.

1.  How to encourage new devs to join?  At the moment we show LO as an exciting projects for devs 
to get involved with and quickly see the results of their work getting out there into the real 
world.  As a result they are likely to get into fixing any unexpected problems or side-issues that 
might have cropped up.

2.  We need a "stable branch" where new stuff never gets added, just fixes back-ported from the 
newer, more exciting branch.

That is pretty much what we have already.  By the time the newer branch reaches around .4 then it's 
usually stable enough for everyone = about as stable as the .6 or .7 of the older branch but with 
better compatibility with non-native formats and some interesting things.

If some of us helped the devs more by posting bug-reports earlier then we might be able to help 
them push that stability in earlier.  We might start finding the 3. or even the .2 starts to be the 
one stable enough to migrate our colleagues and co-workers to as well as ourselves instead of 
having to wait for the .4.

It's on us more than the devs.  They are working hard and need our support rather than our 
criticism.  Do we want to push devs away unless they only get involved with boring dry stuff and no 
reward, no chance of showing off prowess, no chance of getting recognition out there?

I like people in here too.  I also enjoy arguing with people i like and respect that have a good 
point of view and a good way of looking at the world.  I usually take good points from here and 
then argue in favour of them on the marketing list because you have very valid points here.

We do need an LTS because these frequent upgrades and uncertainty are just not possible when you 
have more than a handful of computers to maintain or have limited download, or ....  Well, tons of 
valid reasons
Regards from
Tom :)

--- On Wed, 17/10/12, Dr. R. O Stapf <> wrote:

From: Dr. R. O Stapf <>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Indexing for Search not working?
To: "Tom Davies" <>
Date: Wednesday, 17 October, 2012, 9:42

It's not falling behind in development. It's about stability and
     this means productivity.It's like placing an always stronger engine in an F1 car without
     considering to get the power on the road. What means the best engine
     when the suspension is not strong enough. With other words I feel I
     spent a lot of time in this forum which are reducing my productivity
     time. I don't mind being in the forum because there are nice people
     here and I like to read the various opinions.)I don't know how many devs are working on new 
functions and how many
     on bug fixes. It would just be good to change for a certain time the
     ratio of devs working on bugs.Do we want it or not we are compared against MSO. But in MSO we
     don't know the bugs.... MS neglects them.On 17.10.2012 17:07, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)Ok, so we should just get rid of or push away any devs
               that are interested in adding new functionality.There
               are a lot of other projects they could go to for that sort
               of excitement.We could build-up a strong core of devs
               that focus only on fixing things that already exist.Get
               rid of any that have too much imagination.We could watch and wait while other Office 
Suites develop
               new functionality and then try to catch up and try to
               write code to do the same thing but without the code
               looking too similar.They would set the format and the
               way things should look and we just try to copy exactly
               without looking too similar.Let our competitors do the driving and just gradually 
               further and further back?!!??Alternatively we could try to help all our devs by test
               driving the new branch asap.Seek out 'bugs' or anything
               vaguely wonky.Post bug reports.Find work-arounds.Fall back on the more stable 
release from the older branch
               (we can have 2 versions installed at once right?) for when
               we need to meet deadlines.The question is do we want LO to fall behind and become
               increasingly irrelevant or are we ready to help push out
               into the world?Do we want LO to keep going in the future
               or are we happy to be forced into switching back to MSO
               one day?Regards fromTom :)--- OnWed, 17/10/12, Dr. R. O 
Stapfreinhold@stapf-online.comwrote:From: Dr. R. O Stapfreinhold@stapf-online.comSubject: Re: 
[libreoffice-users] Indexing for Search not
                 working?To:users@global.libreoffice.orgDate: Wednesday, 17 October, 2012, 8:44On 
17.10.2012 16:07, Pertti Rnnberg wrote:BRAVO Anne-Ology!!Exactly that message - only in other words 
-- I
                   have repeatedly tried to tell to the LibO-experts
                   (devs) since January:they must take a brake in developing and take a
                   certain version (e.g. 3.4.xx) and make every module of
                   the suite - Base included - absolutely free of bugs
                   and inconsistencies both in programming and the
                   instructions and especially the LibO-Help.Every feature shall have a clear 
explanation and
                   a detailed guiding how-to in the LibO-Help -- easily
                   understood by any average non-expert user.I cannot agree more.I started with 
3.5.4 a few month ago and saw some
                   problems disappearing in3.5.5 and 3.5.6. Currently I
                   am hesitating to upgrade to 3.5.7.I hope the dev-team listens to Pertti's 
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