Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: database or spreadsheet

On 02/06/2012 02:45 PM, Dan Lewis wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-02-06 at 19:51 +0100, Andreas Säger wrote:
> > Am 06.02.2012 19:22, Dan Lewis wrote:
> >          I wonder how many people who use LO have read chapter 8 of the
> > > Getting Started Gude, "Getting Started with Base"? I know that I have
> > > very seldom seen a comment about its contents. (I wrote it and am
> > > presently updating it. I'm also working on the Base Guide in its
> > > entirety.)
> > >
> > > Dan
> > Sorry, that guide is too light weight. The matter is as abstract as a
> > programming language. It takes an IT guy with some theoretical concepts
> > and experience. Most parts of the helping Base tools are useless. They
> > can not do what they pretend to be made for. Most importantly, the form
> > wizard can not build forms. Most of the possible types of forms have to
> > be drawn by hand and you need to know very well what you are going to do
> > when you build up your own hierarchy in the form navigator.
> >
> > A little bit of click experience with MS Access is not enough to design
> > a relational database connected to Base just like some experience with
> > the VBA macro recorder and code completion does not qualify anybody to
> > program anything outside that specific context.
> >
> > The problem is that too many new developers try to learn having their
> > hands on the problems they are trying to solve right now. This is very
> > inefficient.
> > In my opinion, the "mid level tutorial" by Mariano Casanova is the best
> > guide to start learning about databases in general in the context of the
> > Base component:
> > http://openoffice.org/projects/documentation/downloads/directory/Base/Mid%20level%20Base%20tutorial.
> > Most importantly, the term "macro" occurs only twice on 189 pages.
>       And it appears that you just explained why people will use
> spreadsheets (incorrectly perhaps) instead of a database. You just
> raised the bar too high for the average person. Why would anyone want to
> learn something as abstract as a programming language before creating a
> "simple" database?
>       And the "mid-level tutorial" you mentioned contains this quote at
> the beginning: "Step-by-step guide to producing fairly sophisticated
> database applications with OpenOffice.org Base, from initial problem to
> final product complete with
> forms and reports."
>       You obviously have a very in dept knowledges of database and can do
> many things with them that others can not do. But that does not mean
> others have to have a detailed knowledge of databases before they can
> create them. Not everyone has a need for a "fairly sophisticated
> database" to meet their needs.
>       Yes, there are databases that need the DBMS to rely upon as much of
> the SQL language as possible. (The latest Oracle program with its PL/SQL
> might be what they need.) For help, you would be a good person to ask
> advice from. And there are many databases that will run using Base with
> its "infamous" 1.8 database engine. For some of these, the Getting
> Started with Base is all the person needs. For others, the future Base
> Guide will be sufficient.
>       I think this thread came from a another thread in which a
> spreadsheet was used as a database and the question involved changing
> the names of the sheets of the spreadsheet. If a database were
> constructed to do what this spreadsheet does, that would be time
> consuming and require someone like yourself with a great deal of
> knowledge of database theory. It would probably be very sophisticated.
>       But the original question that began this thread seemed to broaden
> the scope to include much simpler spreadsheets and simpler databases.
> And that is why I answered as I did. It is also why I have written this.
> The range of databases that can be created goes from the very simple to
> the very complex.
>       For some people, entering SQL statements in to the Execute SQL
> Statement dialog is very easy to do. But doing this would be very
> frustrating to to others because it is hard to tell whether they wrote
> the write SQL or not. For them, using the dialogs of Base will provide
> them with what they need.
>
> --Dan
The problem appears to be when should a simple database be used in 
preference to a very messy spreadsheet. Spreadsheets are excellent for 
doing calculation intensive operations but not very good when dealing 
with scattered relational data. Databases are much better at handling 
data relationships with modest calculations.

For example one person company might initially find that using a 
spreadsheet to generate and track invoices fairly easy. Later it might 
become a problem to locate information in the spreadsheets but it would 
be much easier to generate the required data from a database. The 
question then becomes when does the spreadsheet fail as database. It is 
not question that always has an obvious answer.

Also, one should remember that many who do not use databases regularly 
fail to appreciate one major advantage; enter once and query and use as 
needed in many places and ways. Yes you can link to cells within a 
spreadsheet but if the data must be reused else where then you often cut 
& paste or worse yet retype the data in another spreadsheet.

--
Jay Lozier
jslozier@gmail.com


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