Re: [libreoffice-design] feedback on #91781

Hi Jay,
Le 07/06/2015 19:07, Jay Philips a écrit :
[...]

> > * 'Exchange database' doesn't it belongs to bibliography?
> > --> no please, do not hide this function that is used a lot doing mail
> > merge
>
> Would 'Exchange Database' be more suitable in the Tools menu next to
> 'Bibliography Database'?

Why, you're not working on the database, but editing the link to the
database.
> > * (Insert) Hyperlink and Edit > Link use the same dialog – we could also
> > remove it here
> > --> the Edit > link dialog doesn't use the same dialog as Insert, it
> > allow you to remove links or update them manually, automatically for
> > several different objects.
>
> I'm assuming he meant Insert > Hyperlink and Edit > Hyperlink, which do
> use the same dialog. :D

So to edit an hyperlink you chose the insert menu?
> > Insert (Writer)
> >
> > * Section… - never heard about ;-) - and the envelope are something like
> > a textbox
> > --> this one is very common on text formatting, should be at the top
>
> Not very commonly used according to the stats, which likely means its
> commonly used only by experienced/advanced users (aka Eve). The stats
> have Insert > Image > From File as the highest used entry in the menu
> and its submenus and Insert > Section as one of the lowest in the first
> level. Even behind Insert > Envelope and Insert > File. (the namings
> given here are according to LO 4.3)

which is wrong, but no time to discuss that
> > * All together I'm a little bit lost here since naming/classification
> > the sections is not easy; this menu is too large
> > Insert (Calc)
> > --> several are too long, need to scroll to display all the items
>
> As HIG says we have to have all of them in the menu, we can only do so
> much. As you said you had to scroll to display them, i checked my laptop
> which is 1280x768 and the insert menu was the longest, but i didnt need
> to scroll according to today's master. It can be reduce by 1 if i move
> Insert > Chart back into Insert > Object.

Insert and format are too long for my screen
> > Format
> > * Looks like a heavy multipurpose menu (I'm looking onto the screenshots
> > only) – no idea what's below Text - but is there a difference between
> > Number Format and Lists?
> >
> > --> there is absolutely no need of them in the menu, plus we don't want
> > users to use direct formatting but rely on styles instead
>
> There is an absolutely good reason for them. Firstly its defined in the
> HIG that all commands be available in the menus, but secondly you
> previously stated "when you train people on software, the first thing
> you tell them is to be curious and to visit the menus if they search for
> something" and if these items are not available in the menu, how would a
> user discover useful shortcuts like Ctrl+] for Increase Font Size. 

Who would encourage users to use this command instead of styles?
The
> menu also has commands that weren't previously easily accessible until i
> added them to the toolbar (e.g. superscript, subscript, line spacing,
> increase/decrease paragraph spacing, etc).

We want the document produced with LibreOffice to be robust with
roundtrip to other format, so please do not encourage users to use
direct formatting, on the contrary we should make them aware of styles
and simplify the process to access them, this is what should be worked
on and where we should put resources and creativity.
> We can want users to not use direct formatting, though we present them
> with direct formatting in the toolbar and also in the context menu until
> recently, but it will always be used until styles are presented to users
> in such an easy manner that even a beginner would understand and be
> convinced that it is the only way. We dont even provide an easy means
> for users to select character styles, so if a user wants to make some
> text bold, he will click the bold button in the toolbar over opening the
> styles and formatting dialog, switch to character styles and select
> strong emphasis.

This is exactly where efforts should be put and not to reproduce the
same old wrong behavior.
> > Will try to find the time to go through more of them.
>
> Look forward to your next round of suggestions, though i had already
> gone through all of Heiko's suggestions with him last wednesday after
> the design meeting. :D

Not sure what does it mean, I'll just check for feature loss then.

More:
Frame is doubled in the Insert menu
Is inserting index something so little used that it should be down in
the menu too?
Clear Direct Formatting should be at the same place in Writer and Calc,
both at the top.

Did you remove entries in Calc menu?

I've seen 'Rulers' reappeared in the menu in a patch yesterday, this
feature has been removed since several versions now because of
compatibility issues, any reason to add it again?

Cheers
Sophie

-- 
Sophie Gautier sophie.gautier@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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