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On 06/04/2015 05:22 PM, Sophie wrote:
Hi all,

Hi Sophi, just saw this message now. :D

Some comments on the details provided on the issue, don't take them as
criticism but as a long time trainer, here is my feedback with my user
experience on background.

Your feedback is always valued. :D

Also, please before making changes to a functionality make sure that you
have the whole knowledge of what it does. I don't want to put all the
comments I have on the issue, so on this special one, Jay a menu entry
is not like a tool bar that you just remove.

Yes i'm aware of the menu entries are different than toolbar buttons, which is why i limited my removal of entries to the Edit menu.

Also when you train people on software, the first thing you tell them is
to be curious and to visit the menus if they search for something.

Yes we do want more experienced users to visit the menus, which is why in the HIG we have stated that the menu bar should contain all commands.

> I'm
> not sure why LibreOffice should be different from others here and make
> the learning curve of the functionalities more difficult.

I didnt quite follow this.

As to rely on OOo stats that were made years ago, I'm not sure it's a
good incent, the software and habits have change a lot since.

The software hasnt changed that dramatically since the OOo stats were collected and user behaviour doesnt change that much over time as well. I dont exclusively rely on the stats, as i do compare LO with its various competitors (MSO, iWork, WPS, WordPerfect, Calligra, Abiword/Gnumeric).

* 'Exchange database' doesn't it belongs to bibliography?
--> no please, do not hide this function that is used a lot doing mail merge

Would 'Exchange Database' be more suitable in the Tools menu next to 'Bibliography Database'?

* (Insert) Hyperlink and Edit > Link use the same dialog – we could also
remove it here
--> the Edit > link dialog doesn't use the same dialog as Insert, it
allow you to remove links or update them manually, automatically for
several different objects.

I'm assuming he meant Insert > Hyperlink and Edit > Hyperlink, which do use the same dialog. :D

Insert (Writer)

* Section… - never heard about ;-) - and the envelope are something like
a textbox
--> this one is very common on text formatting, should be at the top

Not very commonly used according to the stats, which likely means its commonly used only by experienced/advanced users (aka Eve). The stats have Insert > Image > From File as the highest used entry in the menu and its submenus and Insert > Section as one of the lowest in the first level. Even behind Insert > Envelope and Insert > File. (the namings given here are according to LO 4.3)

* All together I'm a little bit lost here since naming/classification
the sections is not easy; this menu is too large
Insert (Calc)
--> several are too long, need to scroll to display all the items

As HIG says we have to have all of them in the menu, we can only do so much. As you said you had to scroll to display them, i checked my laptop which is 1280x768 and the insert menu was the longest, but i didnt need to scroll according to today's master. It can be reduce by 1 if i move Insert > Chart back into Insert > Object.

* Looks like a heavy multipurpose menu (I'm looking onto the screenshots
only) – no idea what's below Text - but is there a difference between
Number Format and Lists?

--> there is absolutely no need of them in the menu, plus we don't want
users to use direct formatting but rely on styles instead

There is an absolutely good reason for them. Firstly its defined in the HIG that all commands be available in the menus, but secondly you previously stated "when you train people on software, the first thing you tell them is to be curious and to visit the menus if they search for something" and if these items are not available in the menu, how would a user discover useful shortcuts like Ctrl+] for Increase Font Size. The menu also has commands that weren't previously easily accessible until i added them to the toolbar (e.g. superscript, subscript, line spacing, increase/decrease paragraph spacing, etc).

We can want users to not use direct formatting, though we present them with direct formatting in the toolbar and also in the context menu until recently, but it will always be used until styles are presented to users in such an easy manner that even a beginner would understand and be convinced that it is the only way. We dont even provide an easy means for users to select character styles, so if a user wants to make some text bold, he will click the bold button in the toolbar over opening the styles and formatting dialog, switch to character styles and select strong emphasis.

Will try to find the time to go through more of them.

Look forward to your next round of suggestions, though i had already gone through all of Heiko's suggestions with him last wednesday after the design meeting. :D


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