Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Our new website is progressing - have a look!

On 2021-09-07 11:40, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am 06.09.21 um 18:52 schrieb Brett Cornwall:
> > On 2021-09-06 15:18, Rhoslyn Prys wrote:
> > > Hmmm, that looks pretty technical to me...
> > >
> > > Any chance of doing something nice and easy in WordPress or similar?
> > >
> > > Just asking :-)
> >
> > I cannot speak for those owning this project.
> >
> > Hugo is most certainly a much simpler solution from a maintenance
> > perspective. Wordpress (and similar CMSes) is a nightmare to maintain
> > and always devolves into a mess of plugins (that everyone is too
> > afraid to change/deactivate for fear of breaking the site), custom PHP
> > snippets galore, horrible WYSIWYG battles, and a general feeling of
> > dread for ever updating/changing Wordpress. So long as reliance on
> > JavaScript is kept to a minimum, this will be a win for
> > libreoffice.org's maintainability and performance (and likely SEO).
> >
> > As for Git, this technical barrier is a downside for those unfamiliar:
> > Those in charge of content may very well not be comfortable with Git.
> > I should hope that the owners of this project solicited feedback from
> > those in charge of the site content. It's important that they are
> > comfortable with such a workflow.
> >
> > If it weren't for merge conflicts and other VCS-isms I would argue
> > that learning simple markdown files + a Git GUI would be miles simpler
> > that learning how to use Wordpress... :)
> and for those who think content contributors had only to learn markdown
> and Git to make valuable contributions have no clue about non-tech-savvy
> people.

Do take the time to actually read what I wrote before throwing your 
weight around.

> First: it's not more easy to learn markdown + Git than to use a CMS for
> a content contributor (most of them are usable like an office text program)

Yes, and I will fight to the death saying that WYSIWYG editors are 
horrendously complicated, nigh-unusable beasts with varying degrees of 
utter brokenness - LibreOffice included. Markdown can be learned in 
literally five minutes. Add another five to learn how to use Hugo 
shortcodes and you've got yourself a bullet-proof way to write without 
subjecting your poor users to whichever horrible theme editor is 
inflicted upon them.

VCS is another story, and - again, had you actually read what I wrote - 
I think it's a net negative for non-technical contributors. But are we 
really currently letting non-technical people change libreoffice.org, a 
largely-static website separate from blog.tdf.org?

> Second: if you want to get a look onto your changes / contributions
> before you submit them you need a local build environment. It works not
> out of the box with a current Debian 11 fresh setup.

  $ sudo apt install -y hugo && hugo -F server

You just learned how to set up local development! And again... they 
hooked up fancy automation such that you *don't* need to even use your 
local environment if you're feeling saucy.

tl;dr I agree that Git is not something for non-tech users to use, but 
libreoffice.org is IIRC largely maintained by technical people (it's a 
website after all, not a blog). Therefore, Hugo is a perfectly 
acceptable solution.

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