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On 2021-09-09 17:43, Andreas Mantke wrote:

Am 09.09.21 um 01:04 schrieb Brett Cornwall:
I was hesitant to reply to this because I'm starting to think that
you're just a troll... but I'll bite: It's not LibreOffice's problem
that your distro packages software so old that even the brand new
release is already out of date. That's *your* problem to deal with.

maybe it's always a good starter to know a bit about the people you are
talking to:

(see the picture on the right side and you get the 'trol'l for about 16

I respect your old contributions but that has no bearing on your current misdirection of arguments and previous shilling of Plone in the past months (which seems to be your favorite pet project - quite a conflict of interest in this discussion).

And nice to read that the latest release of the free Linux distribution
Debian (from this year) is only old software. The project and its
maintainers will like you for this ;-)

It's not a secret; It's literally how the distro operates. The point remains that it's your problem to solve because Debian is an environment of your own choosing.

And yes, it *is* my opinion that tech-savvy people should contribute
to the public face of LibreOffice's web presence. *Industry
professional web developers* should be building it because that talent
is what makes a good website.

And you are thinking of an excluding and not an including and open
project. Thus we didn't share the same opinions on open source projects
and LibreOffice in particular.

Based on this vision and thinking LibreOffice and its ancestor wouldn't
have had a website etc.

No, I'm saying that when there's actual website development work to be done, it should be done by people that build websites. As Ilmari has already stated a few times now, translations can be handled with weblate for the non-technical side of contributions.

Inclusivity is not about letting anybody change production stuff through means of CMS crutches; It is creating a welcoming atmosphere that provides opportunity for interested (and sometimes marginalized) individuals. If a contributor is unable to handle the technicalities of web development, they are more than welcome to pursue any of the myriad different opportunities to contribute. Or LibreOffice can mentor them. The same goes for the codebase: Programmers need to be committing the code. Inclusivity is a people management issue more than a technology issue.

It's asinine to believe that hosting a flimsy CMS for flinging digital
mud is a *good* idea in webdev.
Such opinion about content contributions seemed a bit singular to me and
could be seen as disrespect. But I respect your opinion, although I
don't share it.

There's a place for CMSes like WordPress. LibreOffice decided in favor of Hugo because the product is a static website that will rarely change, requires less maintenance burden than the current CMS solution, and requires modern web development practices without the onerous natures of huge, complex frameworks. The blog remains an approachable secondary CMS to those that require easy editing. This is a relatively insubstantial part of the LibreOffice project and, once the replacement site is finished, will require little upkeep.

This is *reducing the technical barrier to entry* because there is now no need to write PHP, Python, or whichever lower-level language is necessary to build the CMS-based sites. There's no way around the fact that there is some technical expertise required when building a website. *Content* may not require the expertise, but the *content* is so rarely changing on (The hero slideshow has had the same text/graphics since the inception of LibreOffice AFAICR).

The tooling only matters when the technology is so bad or onerous that it impedes any sort of forward momentum. It doesn't matter if LO chose Hugo, WordPress, or even your beloved Plone, it's all about providing a welcome environment for contributors with good documentation and a predictable change lifecycle.

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