Re: [libreoffice-users] undo functionality

Well then if you are going to respond like that, I am going to respond 
in public.


Joel Madero schreef op 01-06-2016 18:13:
> I use LibreOffice daily for professional work - your subjective 
> feelings
> are irrelevant in this outside of imposing a common sense "duty" (as a
> member of the open source world) to report whatever issues you have in 
> a
> polite way and then wait patiently for the people with the skills that
> you don't have to fix the problems that they confirm. Tens of millions
> of users are using the product daily for professional quality work -
> you're in the minority.


I wrote a message to Joel Madero in private because I didn't see it fit 
to write anything more philosophical about the nature of open source 
development on this list.

I did mention to him that people like him could be held liable in the 
end for acts they have committed, or didn't commit, such as false 
advertizing, which this product is doing, like so many others, even if 
there is not a form of direct contractual agreement in monetary terms, 
or anything like it, at the present date, the way this system is 
constructed.

"No warranty" doesn't hold much water in a court of law if it actually 
violates common principles.

And I hope you do realize, that all of you, developers or not, could be 
held liable for the work you do, and false advertizing you are a part 
of, if the false promises you make on websites such as that of this 
product, come down to costing people a lot of time and money, because 
you make promises you do not actually live up to.

And I stated these things because a form of reward is often implied in 
using as well as creating open source products, and "no monetary gain" 
is not a reality. People do this work and often get rewarded in other 
forms, often as a form of investment or finding employment later down 
the line. And I stated that everyone who is using open source material 
is investing in the future, and the contract is often that something may 
be free for now, but will yield rewards later down the line, or will 
even require payment later down the line, because anyone who has made a 
lot of money based on something free, will feel like paying back on 
that.

So I feel this "no responsibility" claim is just nonsense to begin with. 
That is not how life works, and it is not how people work.

If you put something out into the world, then accept responsibility for 
it. And this is just common sense, but open source people often try to 
reinvent common sense, and think they can do better than anyone, because 
in some way they are distancing themselves from corporate people, so 
they must be superior.

"No liability" or "no warranty" is going to not work out in the end, and 
you are going to get hurt for it. And this is a promise as well, because 
you are hurting yourself, and no one else.

Moreover, stating that in some way people (such as me) must be a good 
'sheep' and are required to speak politely (as if speaking to superiors) 
and then "patiently wait" (as if open source is not about active 
involvement) until others who "do have the skills" see fit to spend 
their valuable time on issues that they confirm at their sole 
discretion, basically without anyone else having a say, but moreover, 
without any requirement to even /listen/ to anyone else outside of their 
scope, including, basically, all users, I can only currently qualify as 
extremely arrogant, and downright oppressive. And I feel this user only 
made these statements because it was done in private, whereas I didn't 
write my message with privacy in mind.

If that is the picture you want to paint of yourself, fine, but then I 
am not a part of that, or I am not a part of you.

Moreover, this arrogance mostly results also, of his incorrect 
assumption that I am not a developer myself, and his condescending tone 
only results at this point from thinking I have no code development 
skills in the first place. "Wait until people who do have some skills to 
see fit to maybe maybe maybe design the feature you want".

"You small man" you might add, and that would then apply to me. 
Belittling users who have no coding skills in this fashion.... and 
completely wrong in the first place, as it may be. Oh, you might say, 
then why don't you say so! You might work for us! Suddenly the tone 
changes and instead of filing bug reports (however mundane) I would now 
be required to do that work myself, right?

Free work!!

Oops. Yes, as a user I might be thankful on my knees that these great 
developers have even seen fit to create the product in the first place, 
and that I, as an insignificant being, am even allowed to use it, in the 
first place.

Treated as some kind of worm, or some lowly being.

"Your subjective feelings are irrelevant". Really. What if those 
subjective feelings might in the end come down to work opportunity and 
employment opportunity being lost for you, yourself? You are taking a 
big gamble here man.

Maybe the small fly ends up being something bigger than that.

Funny, some people in positions of authority or power often pose as 
small people to elicit responses like that. I don't know of many that 
do. A Bishop in the united states, once attended his own Christmas 
sermon dressed up as a beggar. After most of those good faith Christians 
had tried to shoo him out of his own Christmas church, he doffed his 
attire and proceeded to say that he didn't mean to shame them, but all 
the same it should provide a lesson as to how people are often judged by 
appearances, and that perhaps it should not be a right thing to do. 
Unrelated here, but some C.E.O.'s do the same, I'm sure.

This person says "feel free to report a bug" after saying that no one is 
going to listen to it anyway.

Since these are just "subjective feelings" anyway, and "millions of 
users" that you never asked never complained about it to your knowledge.

The question of whether something /should/ work in a certain way, is 
apparently not important.

And yes, people get fired for such things. However much you may disagree 
with that, for instance, an employee for the Linux Foundation was pretty 
much fired after publicly attacking the proposals of a member (or 
sponsor) organisation. So I would say to watch your words, and do not 
assume you can know whom you are talking to, or whether something will 
not bite you in the end.

A more sane and polite approach, yourself, might be advisable. Try to 
act in a way in which you will never need to apologize, even if you turn 
out to have been wrong. Try to assume best intents, and try to assume 
knowledge on the part of the other. Also try to assume competence, in 
the beginning. Try to assume that what someone is saying, might actually 
have some merit. You might come much farther in life, if you do so.

And don't risk getting burned for some arrogance popping out in case no 
one else can hear it, you think, or it is being said to someone who 
doesn't matter anyway.

And my name, it doesn't matter, but you can find out easily.

And I am someone of complete insignificance, after all.

Or, as dr. Evil liked to say, "The details of my life are 
inconsequential".

;-).

Regards, B.

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