Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

Le 07.08.2014 09:55, NoOp a écrit :
> On 08/06/2014 10:01 AM, Florian Reisinger wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > If we do not find the bugs in the fresh version, they won't be 
> > resolved until the rename to Stable/Still. If less use Fresh, the 
> > quality of the next stable will be lower.... Does this help?
>
> No.  Basically what you and Sophie are saying is that 'we fully expect
> new/any user to download and use the "Fresh" branch by default so that
> LO (dev?) can find an resolve bugs in the 'new & improved & added
> feature' version'. That's just crazy talk.

No, that is how Free Software works. If you think it is crazy, then 
Ubuntu, Firefox, the Linux kernel, Debian, Fedora, Mint, VLC... every 
other project has that crazy way.

> I am somewhat astounded as I hear Charles complaining about funding
> (rightly so, that's his job),


huh? What is my job, according to you?


> users complaining about lack of bug fixes
> w/dev's LO countering with 'we only have a certain amount of resources 
> &
> have to prioritise' etc., etc. So why even have two branches to begin 
> with?


Because branches do not cost more money than 10 or 1.

> The Fresh/Still nonsense is just that - nonsense. Here is a link to the
> internet archive from LO Download in 2013 Dec 31:
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20131231021742/http://www.libreoffice.org/download>
>
> On that page there is no "Fresh", "Stable", "Still" et al; there is 
> only
> download defaulting to 4.1.4. and minor link options to change to 4.0 
> or
> 'Pre-releases' 4.2. That download page makes complete sense. Why on
> earth the "private marketing list" change to the current nonsense?
>
> @TDF: Please just stop. Go back to the download page of December 2013 &
> keep it simple.


@Noop: please stop complaining about changes. In 2010, you were already 
complaining about the same things.

>   IMO you should just drop the "Still" branch and concentrate your dev
> efforts on one *single* user release.  The next time that I (as a user)
> hear that you've not enough resources to address a bug report I'll have
> to ask: so, how many devs are working on 'Fresh' v 'Still' v 'Daily' v
> 'Trunk' v EOL, etc? Can you not fix the bug because these folks are
> spread so thin across the various "branches" that they can't properly
> concentrate on a baseline release fix?
>
> @Sophie/Florian: The admission that 'Fresh' is the default so that bugs
> will be identified earlier is, IMO, nuts (other words come to mind, but
> I'll try to keep this civilized). 'Hello World - take our RC (X.Y.0) 
> and
> use it by default so that we can debug it' is not a good thing to
> announce/promote here or elsewhere.
>
> @Charles: you keep asking for users on in this thread to suggest a new
> name ("Now: if you have ideas for new names, etc. you are welcome to
> contribute to our marketing team.) - no name is necessary, nor should 
> it
> be necessary for users on this list to need to subscribe to the
> marketing list to voice their concerns. You are TDF - instead invite 
> the
> "private marketing list" members to participate in this thread, this is
> afterall a user & user support concern. BTW: for those that may want to
> do this anyway, just how does one gain access to this "private 
> marketing
> list" that Sophie spoke of? How about providing a link to a transcript
> of the "private marketing list" contents so that others on this "open
> source" project can review?


Do you think TDF is a company? TDF relies on volunteers. Our users are 
our future contributors. We are not Wal Mart. You don't buy things from 
us and users are not customers. So yes, even if it sounds crazy to you, 
we do highly encourage users to join our various teams. As for the 
private marketing list, yes we do use this list mostly for 
press/announcement preparations, otherwise news and text elements would 
be disclosed before due date. How do you join this list? Good question. 
By contributing, not by complaining, and by asking. And if that's not 
your call, we have plenty of other teams for you to join : 
https://www.libreoffice.org/community/get-involved/

If that's still not your call, and you just want to use LibreOffice... 
that's fine! we are happy that you do so.

> Bottom line is that I (and others) disagree with the "private marketing
> list" decision to go with the existing 'Fresh/Still/whatever' download
> page(s). Please consider simply rolling back to the Dec 2013 model.

Thank you for your suggestion, but no, we won't. We have deployed a 
brand new website, asked for feedback on several completely open and 
public lists for several months. We feel good about the choices we have 
made (although we are still toying with the Still branch name) but no we 
won't come back to the December 2013, December 2010 or December 10 C.E. 
because some think the past is always better than the future.

Best,

Charles.


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