Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

Hi :)
One event in 2 years is not worth creating a big fuss over.  It got fixed through some excellent 
work by Florian (as usual) and i think someone else.  The vast majority of people seem to  realise 
that anything can go very public and perhaps even "go viral" very fast.  

We seldom seem to run into the problem of people not realise how to unsubscribe anymore either so 
perhaps people are just becoming more familiar with the problems of modern times and typical 
work-arounds (such as giving info in the sig at the bottom).  


While most email-client may have an easy way to "reply to list" the ones that are used by most 
people do not have the functionality and i can't imagine Microsoft adding it just to make things 
easier for TDF.  If we are aiming at avoiding converting or migrating MS Office users then making 
things difficult for them is fine.  

Most replies are really aimed at the list.  If they go elsewhere then that becomes confusing.  If 
people do want to respond off-list then it's fairly easy to copy&paste an appropriate address into 
the "To" field.  


I thought the guide was interesting but it looked old and unaware of the problems that TDF faces.  
The writer uses a very non-standard (NOT the smae as complying with ISO standards!) email-client 
and doesn't seem to give a hoot about anyone else.  


Normally i wouldn't mind trying something new like this for a couple of days but the timing makes 
it a total pita for me as i have hundreds of emails to get through and 2 clicks instead of 1 is a 
pita that i wouldn't normally notice so much.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Thu, 16/8/12, anne-ology <laginnis@gmail.com> wrote:

From: anne-ology <laginnis@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: "Bjørn Nilssen" <bk@bknilssen.no>
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 1:15

       exactly;
           and well expressed.



On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@bknilssen.no> wrote:

På Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:31:07 +0200, skrev Florian Effenberger <
> floeff@documentfoundation.org**>:
>
>
>   Hello,
> > this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
> > (so-called "Reply to mangling" has been disabled).
> >
> > So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
> > words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
> > automatically sent directly to the list.
>
> Which is the whole idea of a mailing list IMO.
>
>
>
>   In the past, this lead to two major problems:
> > 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
> > where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
> > where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
> > worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people hit
> > "reply" and thought it would reply to the sender only.
>
> That some people send private mail in public can't be a good argument to
> stop/hamper the flow on a miling list - surely?
>
>
>   2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
> > with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because of
> > reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also led to
> > the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who needed to
> > spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden with others.
> > While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just one way to find
> > out...
> >
> > Therefore, I have applied a change:
> >
> > Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
> > either need to use the "reply to all" feature of your e-mail program, or -
> > preferably - the "reply to list"/"reply to group" feature, which will
> > direct replies directly to the list.
> >
> > This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
> > setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
> > here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
> > http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.html<http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
>
> I checked every single one of my 52 current mailing lists, and not one
> single one of them follows that rule (except this one). One of them used
> the senders email + the list email in the Reply-To field, but that's it.
> And that list isn't really for discussing, but just for one-way information.
>
> I'd like to see some statistics that shows that 'most mailing lists' does
> not put the list address in the Reply-To field ?
>
> And where is the RFC?
>
> And the poll?
> Looks like most people wants to get it back to how it was, which is how
> all my other 51 lists still are?
> Using the 'Reply to all' option is not a good idea at all IMO.
>
>
>   I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
> > outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it, so I
> > am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
> > understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
> > with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists are
> > unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those two,
> > even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are mutually
> > exclusive to each other.
> >
> > In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
> > again, I beg for your understanding.
> >
> > Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
> > community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you is
> > to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or not.
> > Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will immediately
> > switch back to the old behaviour.
> >
> > Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
> > somehow sitting between two chairs here.
> >
> > Florian
>
> --
> Bjørn K Nilssen

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