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On 8/7/2012 9:58 AM, Felmon Davis wrote:
On Tue, 7 Aug 2012, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:

On 07/08/2012 at 07:37, Felmon Davis <> wrote:

perhaps also Miroslav could cite a book or two; don't see what difference it makes if the books are in Polish. if Missouri is the 'show-me' state, does that require translation into Missourian?

Can you, without help of translation software, tell which one is about register?


1. Części książki zawierające informacje o dziele i autorze lub stanowiące wypowiedź autora związaną z książką. 2. Zgodność padania na siebie wierszy kolumn wydrukowanych po przeciwnych stronach arkusza. 3. Nawiasy okrągłe stosowane są przez autora danego tekstu do oznaczania alternatywnych sformułowań tekstu głównego. (They are all excerpts from the same book, "Typografia typowej książki" by Robert Chwałowski.)

It is safer to assume that most of readers here do not understand Polish. If I write something in language that other people in this thread do not understand, then this message is not proving anything. I could as well write recipe for apple pie and other people will be unable to tell the difference.

I find this an absurd criterion of proof. there are plenty of proofs of things I do not understand, for instance in math physics or fluid dynamics, but that doesn't imply they are not proofs!

to access them I would need yrs of training. to access a text in Polish I need a friend or colleague (or software), a lot easier. or I can just take your word for it.

The same goes for your quote in German. Let's assume that I do not know word "register" and think it is not understandable and should be changed. I read your post, which contain proof in German with "rough and very abbreviated" translation. How can I be sure that this translation is accurate? If I do not understand German, I have no idea what is written there. I must depend solely on your translation.

And *you* are trying to convince me! How can I be sure that you are not lying just to prove your point?

that's pretty cynical. though St Paul wrote that a fellow from Crete told him all Cretans are liars!

(Personally I hope you do not, but again - this is only assumption that may be wrong.)

anyone with a little savvy or some friends can check the translation. and it is exceedingly unlikely you would be lying, it is more likely there is confusion about the question. I am quite prepared to take your word and I see no reason to think we are talking about different things.

If we are trying to convince someone (as in this case), then we must do our best to provide arguments that are understood. It is crucial that each side can independently verify accuracy of arguments. Otherwise, our debate partner will have to believe us. And faith is not a proof.

understood and agreed. and our interlocutors must sometimes be willing to do a little work if they are uncertain of our veracity or accuracy.

Allow me to interject. You both make excellent points, but lets soften the debate a bit and assume nobody is lying, because that's not the issue. The issue, by way of example is as follows. The original bible to my knowledge, was written in Hebrew. Someone wanting to read the bible would either have to learn Hebrew, or rely on someone else's translation of it into one's own native language, in my case English.

Yet, despite the translation there are still millions of people that *interpret* that translation differently from each other. And so, in the case of register true, I simply wanted to see for myself that there was indeed factual evidence that, that terminology was in fact in use at some prior point in time, but more importantly, why those particular words were used to mean what I'm told is "aligning baselines". I wanted to be certain in my own mind, that other people were not interpreting differently than I might interpret, not because they were lying but because everyone sees things a bit differently.

Miloslaw is right, I would greatly prefer to see it in English as I don't know Polish, however the argument falls a bit short when he states using translation software isn't allowed (my interpretation of his comment "without using translation software").

Translation sofware says:
1. the parts of the book containing information about the work and the author or collecting personally the author of a book.
2. compliance of the overlapping rows of columns printed on opposite sides.
3. parentheses are applied by the author of the text to determine the main alternative wording of the text.

I would guess number 2 is the answer to the question he asked. Yet, it fails to answer my original question which is where do the words "register true" come from, and to extend and clarify the question - how did register true come to mean "aligning baselines"?

If there were software that used "hot stove" to mean "burn your hands", ok I see the connection and I'm satisified without further explanation. I don't see the same connection between "register true" and "align baselines" and so I'm curious to see how it came to mean that. I'd be somewhat satisfied if I saw in a book somewhere that was describing the finer points of typesetting or some such, and it simply stated something to the effect of "when they used to set type on the presses built in the early 1900's, they would first align the baselines of all the typeface thingys, and then say to somebody 'it registers true, you may print it'". OK, now at least I have a sense of how we got from here to there.

To the others that supplied links, thank you I intend to check them out but haven't yet done so.

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