Re: [libreoffice-marketing] PR translations

2011/5/8 Charles-H. Schulz <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org>

> Hello,
Hi

This is gonna be loooooong...


> I'd like to add a little bit about that too, see below.
>
> 2011/5/8 webmaster for Kracked Press Productions <
> webmaster@krackedpress.com
> >
>
> > On 05/07/2011 04:18 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote:
> >
> > > So, can anybody tell me why NA community can have
> libreoffice-na.orgdomain
> > > *separated* from TDF hosts and brazilian community can't have
> > > libreoffice.org.br domain?
> > >
> > >  LibreOffice-NA.US -- not .ORG
> >
> > the .org.br domain is the exact same as the main one but with the
> country
> > code - am I correct?
> > They might feel that your are trying to take their domain over in your
> > country, or something like that.
> > I did not see the beginnings of this thread, but by your text, that is
> what
> > your are implying.

No. I just can't see any difference in libreoffice.org, libreoffice,net,
libreoffice.any. They are all libreoffice, whatever the extension or country
code. The issue Charles has pointed out is the "libreoffice", not those
things after the ".", I guess.


> > We are LibreOffice - North America - in the USA
> > so our domain is that the same as but with the added country code.
> >
> > We started our project to be dedicated to our region and create a
> > distribution DVD for that region.
> > I do not think our domain is close enough for TDF to upset by us, I hope.
> >
> > I know one thing.  When I "bought" a domain that was a .org and there was
> a
> > .com with the same name, I added a link to the .com group stating who
> they
> > were and that I was not them.  My domain was for a non-profit listing
> while
> > they were a "for profit", sort of, group.

All right. But, this works in USA. In Brazil, if you want to own a
.org.brdomain, you MUST have a legalized ORGanization.
Libreoffice.org.br is registered to BrOffice.org NGO, which is closing its
activities. In Brazil, .org.br domais, doesn't imply in a .com.br domain to
the same organization. At least, for this moment, Brazilian Community, has
no legalized organization (a NGO, or whatever). So, when BrOffice.org cease
its activities, libreoffice.org.br domain MUST go to another NGO, or end up.
That's the brazilian law, not because of the domain itself, but because it
owns to a NGO which is ending its activities. The domain is part of the NGO
properties.


> > There are a lot of groups out there that have other groups that make
> their
> > domain as close as possible to the original group's domain so they could
> > "steal" viewers away for whatever reason.  All of us are here to promote
> the
> > same software for our different communities.  We are not trying to
> "steal"
> > people away from the other groups.
> >
> > To be honest, if your domain was LibreOffice-Brazil.org, then it would
> not
> > be looking like it was the Brazilian language version of the TDF/LO site,
> > which your domain looks like it could be.

Yes. That's easy saying this right now. But when everybody out there was
turning their backs on us and Brazilian Community were desperatly asking for
help from someone in TDF, decisions should be taken, and they were. Despite
of the opinions that the issue is resumed to "personal" desagreements among
few people, it has a great *political* component, because it was all about
on what some people were trying to do with the results of the contribution
made by dozens of good contributors to BrOffce AND OpenOffice/LibreOffice.
We were seeing our contributions been appropriated and nothing was said to
us.

Well and this is the real point: do we "own" that domain? No we don't. We
just use it because we have almost ten years of data stored in a website,
well known and widely accessed by Brazilian users and we couldn't symply
redirect all domains to TDF, from one second to another.
We decided not to use the brand BrOffice anymore, for two reasons: 1 - For
the Brazilian Community, BrOffice was dead with the end of NGO. TDF was
arrising and we decided to take part on it. 2 - Some bad guys were arrising
issues about the domain broffice.org was owned by an individual (in this
case, Claudio). From one moment to another, after 10 years that brand were
being used by the Community, Claudio seemed not to be reliable anymore by
some people outside Brazilian Community.

LibreOffice.org.br domain were registered by those people who were "in
charge" of NGO BrOffice.org when Brazillian Community deauthorize them to
represent it. Our Community had decided (and it is well documented in our
open mailing lists) not to be guided by a Organization which were acting as
a "filter" between it and international LibreOffice Community. Some guys
began to act as "managers", like in a corporation. Orders were given, whole
contributions were dismissed without notice to the Community. A lot of wrong
things were taking place and that's why all came to that. That's not simply
"personal" issues among two or three guys. There's a lot of thing behind
this that people, who could help us, had refused to know and help.


> > Could you use Colibri.org and also add .org.br?  Then, for now, you
> could
> > redirect your current .org.br domain to the new Colibri site.  Later,
> > after people get use to the new site's domain, you could phase it out.
>  Also
> > you could just ask a question on where the viewer wants to go, your site
> of
> > the TDF/LO site.

Yes, we can! And I suppose it's the best thing to do. But I have a feeling
in this discussion, that you guys think we are trying to possess something
that don't belong to us. We really had spectations to be supported by TDF.
First because, as Luiz said in other post, there are a lot of people out
there, you don't know, and they are not thieves, they are real contributors
to LibreOffice and TDF. There's a whole Community beyond Cláudio, Olivier
and Gustavo you really don't know. And that Community wants to be part of
international LibreOffice Community.


> > For me, your libreoffice.org.br is too close to the TDF/LO site's
> domain.
> >  That was one reason I opted for the .us domain ending instead of the
> .org
> > one.  It helped make our domain more different than the original one.
> >
> > Of course all this is my own opinion, and I was the one who paid for the
> NA
> > domain.
>
> In other words: We can contribute to TDF and LibreOffice but we cannot use
the brands, because we are just "eventuals" and yet we have no "skills"
enough to be considered part of the "real LibreOffice community", right?
What we need to do to be considered "skilled enough"?


> Indeed, you make several good points above, and I'd like to add some more.
> If one goes to the LibreOffice North America DVD project, one sees a
> website
> dedicated to just that; and it does not attempt to replicate
> libreoffice.org.
> On the contrary, they point to relevant links inside LibreOffice.org, uses
> mailing lists here, explains what they do, have explained why they were
> doing this website here, on this list and on others, what TDF is, etc.


Ok, So I must ask you: where do you see any "replication"? There are none!
At libreoffice.org.br all history and projects developed for the last 10
years is stored. Nothing there is "replicated" from TDF. If you take a
closer look, you could see that the it is being changed, day by day. Many of
the links are pointed to TDF servers. But we are too few volunteers to make
a huge job, which is to catalog, classify and *move* contents to a proper
location in TDF servers. We simply cannot do that in a couple of days! It's
gonna take months, maybe years!



> So I
> think it's pretty clean and clear in that case.  Luiz, Paulo, TDF has been
> created by volunteers 7 months ago. The notion that somehow you guys have
> to
> do something separate does not make any sense to me. It's not like if we
> were a large corporation and that you would have suspicions about our
> intention. If you had specific requirements I would have loved to hear
> about
> them. I'm afraid I/we never heard about any of that.

I know TDF were created by volunteers. I could also be one of them, but I
was behind the "filter" I told you above. Unfortunately, BrOffice.org was a
blessing and a doom for Brazillian Community. But I will say again:

We are not trying to do anything "separated". We are trying to *move* to
TDF, but we are few the the task is huge. We are facing some resistance from
people who are "affraid of the dark", and preffer remain "independent",
i.e., *separated*. And we are doing our best to be an active part of
LibreOffice Community. But we cannot simply put those things to people's
minds. Our job is slow in order not to disrrupt our Community. The proof is
the three main projects we are performing right now (magazine, official
documentation translation and install DVD) have their processes entirely
made in the wiki dvd.libreofficebox.org, brasil.libreofficebox.org and
pt-br.libreofice.org websites. We also use ODFAuthors and we are about to
try Alfresco.

Look: we are not trying to separate anything. We (the Brazillian Community,
not me or Luiz) are trying to be recognized by TDF as real and valuable
contributors. We are performing a hard job in BrOffice Magazine, translating
official documentation to pt-br (what has never been done before) and we are
making it fast. We have a lot of work at users mailing list and other list.
Luiz, me, and a lot of people, like Helmar, Hélio, Clóvis, Rui, Renata,
Fátima, Albino, Fábio and many more (I apologize for not remember al the
names) are making the "hard job" to organize pt-br section in TDF wiki,
manage pt-br LibreOffice portal, DVD portal for Brazilian users, developing
some installation DVDs to users, writing documentation (like two books about
LibreOfice we are about to include in the wiki), and many more projects.
Some of us remain on line and replying e-mail from users, rookie
contributors and other, almost 24 hours a day. We make the magazine and we
expect we could use the brand LibreOffice on it, because it really
contributes to LibreOffice, and that magazine has a great public. Users in
Brazil read it almost every month, and also participate sending e-mails,
asking for help or supporting us, tips and tricks, articles about how to do
things in LibreOffice. It would be a shame TDF prohibit us to use the
LibreOffice brand.

We have a lot of content in the old BrOffice website we need to move to TDF
structure. Some of them maybe cannot simply to be moved. A good example is
the Gubros (BrOffice users groups). They have their own dynamics locally in
Brazilian states. This doesn't mean they are doing something *separated*.
They are doing things *locally*, in small regions and cities. We just can't
simply say to them "hey, from now on, you're by yourself and you cannot use
our servers, mailing lists and domains anymore".

As you can see, things are not so "clear" as you think they are.


> Best,
> Charles.
Best Regards

-- 
<http://pt-br.libreoffice.org>
Paulo de Souza Lima
Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador
http://www.pasl.net.br
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+help@libreoffice.org
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted