Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreOffice in Chinese (China)

2010.11.11 16:08, Aron Xu rašė:
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 20:50, Rimas Kudelis<rq@akl.lt>  wrote:
> > 2010.11.11 13:21, Aron Xu rašė:
> > > Yes there is already a zh-hans item on that page. I'm not sure whether
> > > we'd change it to zh_CN, because in glibc our language code is zh_CN,
> > > and Mozilla use zh-CN. "zh-hans" is the non-official form to express
> > > the combination of zh_CN and zh_SC, similarly "zh-trans" is for zh_TW
> > > and zh_HK.
> > Dunno where you took that info from. zh-Hans (means Chinese in Han script
> > Simplified variant) is an official code from BCP47, which should be
> > preferred to zh-CN (Chinese in China).
> >
> > Similarly, zh-Hant (Chinese in Han script Traditional variant) are preferred
> > to zh-TW and zh-HK.
> >
> > Not all environments are already using these new codes, but in general, the
> > direction of movement is towards them, not from them. For example, Apple and
> > Microsoft have introduced them in their products recently.
> >
> > Regardless of said above, I'm quite positive that we should take OS
> > expectations into account, and if zh-Han* locale codes aren't recognised by
> > Linux, our Linux packages should probably use older, recognised locale
> > codes.
> >
> > Rimas
> I'm not so familiar about BCP 47 but I heard it was designed for
> Internet application usage (such as HTML). So I agree to use it in our
> wiki and other web documentations.

Well, I haven't read the whole standard either, but I don't think 
Internet is its only application. Similarly, MIME also contains a letter 
for Internet, but it's being used way more widely. ;)

> But for the software, I think we are using the ISO 639-1/2 in most
> cases. Lists of languages in these two ISO standards are [1] and [2].

ISO 639 defines languages, not locales or scripts. Basically, BCP 47 
combines its codes from those defined in ISO 639, ISO 15924, and ISO 3166.

> I think LO is a general desktop application suit and should follow a
> standard that is well accepted, there won't be a better choice than
> using ISO 639-1/2, which is compatible (or almost compatible) to most
> platforms (Windows[3], Mac[4], Linux[5] and other *nix variants).

I don't see zh-CN or zh-TW defined in ISO 639. ;) Code zh is defined, 
but the second part – CN and TW – comes from a totally different 
standard (ISO 3166).
Similarly, Hans and Hant are defined in ISO 15924.

Also, check out [6] for Mac.

> BCP 47 is used in OOo (correct me if I'm wrong!), but I don't think
> it's a wise choice because we have to first map ISO 639 codes to
> BCP-47 for we use gettext have i18n support, then we have to map BCP
> 47 back to Unix locales (which is almost ISO 639 codes) on most *nix
> platforms. Such a process is complicated.

I don't think we're using gettext (yet).

> Language code usage of software are in a mess. Chinese on Windows, for
> example, we can find:
>   * zh_CN (ISO 639-1) for Windows itself (as in [3]);

Well, [3] lists codes for Chinese in different territories, not for 
chinese written in different scripts.

>   * zh-Hans (BCP 47) in Vista and .NET 2.0;
>   * zh-CHS which should be replaced by zh-Hans but still being widely
> used till even today because of Windows XP;

From what I've read, it's going to be obsoleted in future versions of .Net.

>   * zho (ISO 639-2) are being used in some Microsoft documents as well.
>
> There is no doubt that we should follow ISO 639-1 because all
> standards mentioned above are based on it. For languages that do not
> have an ISO 639-1 code, I suggest we use ISO 639-2 so we can easily
> use gettext and support *nix systems, and map the codes to respective
> platforms (Windows, Mac, etc) if necessary.

That's exactly what BCP 47 does. The "zh" part of zh-Hans is exactly the 
code assigned for Chinese by ISO 639-1. ;)

> [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes
> [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes
> [3]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533052
> [4]http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26811?viewlocale=en_US
> [5]http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=tree;f=localedata/locales
[6] 
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/Articles/LanguageDesignations.html


Rimas


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