Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice official color names

Hi Bernhard + Christoph,

Can I butt-in for a second on just one issue; ...

On 3/3/2011 9:33 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Bernhard, all!
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2011, 23:00 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> [...]
> > The greyscale logo uses a 50% grey level (#808080), and I'd like to keep it.
> >
> > But the darker part of the logo is black only in the basic logo.
> > We already discussed the black issue several times, so I'd like to see a
> > "LibreGrey 0" to be used for the dark part of the colored and the
> > greyscale logo.
> >
> > In my eyes 80% grey (#333333) is dark enough to look distinct from the
> > lighter tone, but is recognized as "not black".
It is simply music to my ears to hear you say that Bernhard =)

After so much discussion that seemed to have been swept under the rug, 
it is good to hear confirmation of this (sub)topic.
"Several times" is an understatement =) and if you go back through the 
proposals you can see a correlation between the level of "finish" in the 
designs and the absence of pure black.
Can we finally put this to bed and move to a dark-grey instead of black? 
reasons;
- Black is unfriendly
- Black creates a negative emphasis on contrast (especially given the 
simplicity of the shapes in the logo)
- Makes text "stick out" rather than "blend in"
- The Green doesn't match the black comfortably, but matches the greys well
- Printing dark grey is not an issue (including the mono version)
- Using Grey, especially in gradient, creates the perception of lighting

Really, you only need to look at the difference between this;
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial-Artwork-Logo_ColorLogoBasic_500px.png
and this;
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial-Artwork-Logo_ColorLogoContemporary_500px.png
to know that they are worlds apart.

Black text on white background = default = no thought given to 
appropriateness of message = no design effort made.

> > We could add "LibreGrey 2" and "LibreGrey 3", but I don't think this is
> > necessary for the LibO palette.
> Mmh, I got lost a bit ... if I understood it correctly, you discuss the
> logo instead of the color palette to be included in / translated for
> LibreOffice.
>
> Concerning the former, the black is still fine for the Basic logo for
> various reasons. Indeed, the Contemporary logo features the different
> gray shadings (and is the only one as far as I remember).
We shouldn't have "contemporary" and "plain" versions! that will only 
cause inconsistencies.
Why aren't we just moving over to the contemporary version as the /main/ 
logo?
The plain logo has no benefit over the contemporary version and 
switching them will not create confusion, they are essentially the same 
thing (to end users).
> > If we include the basic colors in the palette, more grey values are as
> > important as the main colors.
The logo point will probably not make it past this email, but the switch 
to grey over black should be considered.
I mean, haven't we been through this enough times to know that it isn't 
worth continuing this mistake?
Has a single person even been able to provide a substantial reason that 
black compliments the branding (clean, balanced and friendly) positioning?

-Nik

PS. I'm the biggest fan of black in identity design, but only when it 
suits the brand.

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