________________________________
From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@gmail.com>
To: Tom Randall <kf6ddt@comcast.net>
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012, 14:21
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page
Yes, I remember all that with Linux. However, much progress has been
made in the last two years to get thing sworking out of the box.
Seriously, if you are pressed for time, the single fastest and best
way to go is to download an iso of Ubuntu Precise which has
acessibility out of the box, pop it into your cd rom drive, power up
your machine and hit control s when you hear the drumroll. When Orca
starts talking, alt tab to the installation dialog and select the try
it out option so you can run it as a live installation. It will come
up and Libre Office is already installed with all the extensions and
plugins and so forth to make it talk with Orca. Save your files onto
a flash drive or your hard drive so you can pick up where you left off
next time you power up your pc. When you are done working for that
day, simply power off your machine and take out the cd. When it turns
back on, it's going to run windows and be none the wiser that you had
Ubuntu running things for a time.
I know this sounds complex but, if you are approaching a deadline, you
need to do something to get the ball rolling. If this is not
something you want to tackle, I seriously advise you to put aside any
qualms you have about MS Office and load it up. You need something
that will get the job done. Period, end of story. If your job is on
the line, it is no time to be making statements about software freedom
and so forth by sticking to Open or Libre Office in hopes that you'll
stumble on some magic setup combination that'll get you going. I know
what I am saying will probably upset some people who read this list
but, frankly, if I have to choose between giving somebody advice that
will keep them employed or chant the party line, the party line will
just have to get on as best it can. I like free and open source
software. If it were up to me, I'd switch each and everything I use
to run a fully Libre system at work and at home. Thing is, there are
too many a11y gaps all over the place for you to do that productively
and efficiently without investing a large amount of time in learning
all sorts of workarounds when there are ways to do what needs toing in
proprietary software that you can meld with your open source stuff. I
have found this approach to be much more powerful than the sum of its
parts.
Best regards,
Alex M
On 8/29/12, Tom Randall <kf6ddt@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Alex and all.
Well that certainly might be something I will consider doing at some
point.
Truthfully I've played with Linux on and off over the years and if I
really
thought it could replace winblows for me I would probably switch in a
new
york minute. However when looking into it it looked like you had to
damn
near be a computer science major to get it fully up and accessible, you
had
to install extensions for this, front ends for that, read through reams
of
docs to figure out how to do all this, and so on and so on. It just
looked
like it was going to take way more time and effort than I was or am
willing
to put into it. So maybe when I can pick up a little bigger hd for this
system running both Linux and windows on here might be the way to go.
This is not the place to start a windows vs. Linux debate and I assure
you
all I am not trying to start one, if people have the time and patience
to
get Linux up and running and it works for them believe me I think that
is
great and wish I could go that route. As to which platform is better
there's not much of a debate about that as far as I am concerned, in
many
ways Linux is superior. Alex as you said in another message and I agree
with this, to me the platform is secondary, however I need something
that
works, that is the bottom line. I hope I don't end up having to install
more MS bloatware on this system, it runs pretty decent the way it is,
but
I'm running out of time and excuses about getting this paperwork done
and
need a reliable and accessible way to do it.
I may try going back to open office, the thing that worries me is the
calc,
that is what seems to be the most problematic for me at the moment.
These
guys where I work are XL freaks and I absolutely have to have a way to
work
with XL spreadsheets. I do also have a MacBook with LO on it so I may
see
if the calc is any better on there.
Best regards,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Midence
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:46 PM
To: Tom Randall
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page
Very sorry, Tom. I'm fresh out. Open office may just be your last
bet. I understand they sucked in all the Lotus Symphony code.
Symphony has a reputation for being quite accessible. I don't know if
Libreoffice got this code or not. Hate to say it but, it just may
have to be MS Office for you in windows. The only other thing you
might try is using it the way *I* do but it's a bit complex:
1. Install vmware.
2. Create a Linux virtual machine (Ubuntu works well)
3. Access Libreoffice in Linux as a guest operating system with Orca
as the screen reader.
4. Keep windows as the host system and go back and forth between it
and Linux in the course of your day.
I use Libreoffice at home. This is how I do it because I have some
windows apps I find quite useful and because browsing the web in Linux
will exhaust the patience of the saintliest of men. The accessible
experience in Linux for Libre Office and Open Ofice is like night and
day compared to Windows. So, for me, I use MsOffice when I'm in
windows land and Libre office in Linux.
Regards,
Alex
On 8/29/12, Tom Randall <kf6ddt@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Alex.
Oh no worries about asking. So far as I can tell the assistive
technology
checkbox is checked, I've tried it both ways since I cannot tell for
sure
if
the box is checked since checkboxes are not being read.
This is the only program I am aware of that I am using that requires
java
accessibility so I have nothing else to test it with.
I only have the latest jre installed, that was the first thing I tried
when
all this started, totally removed java from the system and cleaned up
the
registry and did a fresh install. This is a 32-bit system so that is
not
an
issue. If you've any ideas I'd be glad for them.
Best regards,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Midence
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:00 PM
To: 'Tom Randall'
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page
Tom, I hate to ask, I'm sure you've taken care of this but ... um ..
you
do
have screen reader/assistive technology enabled in the options menu
right?
I guess the other question is, how are other Java applications working
for
you? Are you able to use other stuff that relies on the access bridge?
Aso, how many JRE's do you have on there? I once had a problem with
the
java access bridge that turned out to be caused by me having 3 jre's on
my
system and the JAB being on only two out of those. Guess which one I
was
using? Installing it by hand in the third one fixed it for me but only
after much frustration and wasted time.
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Randall [mailto:kf6ddt@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:57 PM
To: Alex Midence
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page
hi Alex, Tom and all.
Yes I am indeed on this list. Here's the latest update. I forced Java
to
do an update so that it would presumably get the latest version with
the
Jab
pre-installed so I wouldn't have to monkey with that. This appeared to
go
fine and I was able to turn on the Jab via the Windows control panel.
When
I run LO 3.60 and go into the java it shows that java is correctly
installed
with accessibility. However it behaves exactly the same, menus are not
read
and neither is the state of checkboxes. When I have the energy I am
going
to totally uninstall it and delete all data and install the latest
version
from the site and see if that works.
I used Open Office for quite some time and as you said found it pretty
acceptable in most cases and I suppose I could go back to that if
necessary.
I just figured it'd be better to be running something that is still
being
developed and worked on. Fortunately I do not need the presentation
package
so whether impress is accessible or not doesn't matter to me all that
much
although I would hope this will be worked on. What I absolutely have
to
have is writer and calc working, I have to be able to process documents
and
do invoices for my work.
So that's where I am now.
Regards,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Midence
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:22 AM
To: Tom Davies
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org ; Tom Randall
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java nightmare & FAQ wiki-page
Hi,
Sorry to hear you are having such a time of it. I don't know how open
you
are to this suggestion but, I've had success with Open Office in
Windows.
Libreoffice has not worked for me. I use Jaws and NVDA. I have never
used
Supernova so, I don't know how it will react but Openoffice 3.6 (I
think
that's the latest release), worked ok in writer. Jaws even read Writer
ok.
NVDA did just wonderfully with it.
Calc was usable in NVDA but not in Jaws so, I don't know how it'll do
in
Supernova. Impress was totally unusable pretty much all around.
It was a bummer for me. I'm a corporate trainer. I get up in front of
groups of people with presentations up on a projecter and gas away at
them
about this and that. Thus far, I hate to say it but Microsoft
Powerpoint
is
the best and most accessible presentation product for someone in my
situation. Impress has yet to Impress me in either Libre or Open
Office.
hth,
Alex M
On 8/29/12, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi :)
I am not sure if Tom Randall is on this list. You guys seem to have
solved a lot of these java issues so i thought forwarding the thread
here just in case you can help hi8m where others can't.
Also i made a rough wiki-page that is intended to help people solve
java issues.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
I think it might need sub-pages to deal with issues such as the
bridge.
If
you are able to radically rewrite the wiki-page to make it useful and
need me to make extra sub-pages then please just let me know through
this
list.
It sometimes takes me a couple of days to react so my apologies for
being so slack! If you are new to wiki-editing then i might be able
to help with formatting and other issues.
Regards from
Tom :)
-- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
accessibility+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted