[libreoffice-users] Re: Tabs and tab stops in text boxes

On 10/2/17 11:57 AM, Regina Henschel wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> Ken Springer schrieb:
> > Hi, Regina,
> >
> > Yes, I'm in Writer.
> >
> > Why am I using a text box?  Because there is this nice (or not so nice,
> > depending on the icon set) icon in the toolbar area that says "Insert
> > Text Box".  There's no indication the icon refers to a graphic object as
> > opposed to a text object/frame.  Using the word "Text" logically implies
> > you will be working with text, and not graphics.
>
> And to make is more confusing, you can add a "text box" to a custom
> shape (a star e.g.) in Writer and that is an additional kind of "text box".

I seem to vaguely remember reading this somewhere.

> > Digging a little deeper...
> >
> > Right click on the frame.  At the bottom of the context box, it says
> > "Object", not "Frame".  And it really should say "Frame Properties" so
> > the context box entry accurately describes what the link will take you to.
>
> Open the "Styles" pane of the sidebar. The third icon from left selects
> the tab "Frame styles". To these styles belong not only Frame, but
> Formula, Graphics (that are images not shapes) and OLE too. They are all
> kind of "Object". Therefore in some context not the specific but the
> more general term "Object" is used.

Lots of options, but how does this solve the issue for the new user, who 
would have no clue what "Object" would do, but is likely to have a clue 
as to what "Properties" would do?

> Shapes do not have styles in Writer but only in Draw and Impress.
>
> > Occasionally, I have had the same dialog box come up when right clicking
> > on a text box, but I can't reliably reproduce this.
> >
> > Create a text frame the width of the page text area.  Height appears to
> > be unimportant.
>
> You can set a minimal height which expands, if the content grows, or you
> can set a fixed height.

This I knew, but my point here was, that for my example, the height 
doesn't matter.

>     Put a border on the bottom of the frame.  (This is for
> > reference only, so you can see what happens.)  Set the Vertical position
> > for Bottom to the page text area.
> >
> > And look at that...  There's a gap between the frame and the page
> > margin.  :-)
>
> A frame has an outer margin, a border and an inner padding (similar to
> the box model in CSS
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/REC-CSS2-20110607/box.html#box-dimensions).
> Open "Properties" from the context menu (=right click) of the frame. Go
> to tab "Wrap". The section "Spacing" contains the values for the outer
> margin. Go to tab "Borders", the top right values are for "Padding". [It
> will be called Padding in the next LibreOffice version.]

OK, I wasn't expecting page margins to be included in text wrap.  The 
language here is not intuitive.  To me, the words "text wrap" means the 
effect applies only to the text.


> > There's a similar problem with an inserted image.  Do similar to the
> > text frame, but position vertically to the top of the page area.  Add a
> > caption below the image
>
> A caption to the image inserts a frame. The image and the paragraph with
> the caption text are now content of the frame.
>
> , and the image position is no longer next to the
> > top margin of the page.
>
> You have to adjust margin and padding manually.

I think, from a user's perspective, especially a new user, once you 
position and size a graphic on the page, you expect it to stay there. 
Just as if you had glued it to a piece of paper.  You don't expect your 
graphic to move because of something else, unless attached to the 
paragraph.  But a new user is unlikely to know about anchoring overall.

I often feel as if developers eventually forget what it's like to be a 
new user, without all the knowledge they have accumulated over time. 
And they simply cannot view their product in this way, and design for 
that situation.

> > Now that you have a caption, the image position shifts away from the top
> > margin.
> >
> >
> >
> > FWIW, with what I'm currently creating in LO, if I was being paid to
> > create documents similar to this, I would use, and recommend, a page
> > layout program.  :-)  But this gets me what I need to know and learn, so
> > I'm using LO.
>
> If you will use LibreOffice like a layout program, you need a lot to
> learn, because that is not the common use of Writer. Do not hesitate to
> ask. LibreOffice has considerably more possibilities than a simple
> office worker would imagined. Describe what you want to get and people
> will give you tips how to get it.

I have no plans to use LO or any other word processing program as a page 
layout program.  I've found, among the programs I've looked at, that you 
should use the program that is designed for the job you want to do.  The 
more features you add, the harder it is to learn to use, the programs 
slow down in performance, and often the poorer job that is done.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
     and it's gone!"


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