Hi :) It's good to disagree. I think that is how we develop new ideas or new things. Also if wee were all the same and all thought the same it would be mind-blowingly irritating (see various films such as "Logans Run"). If you try to do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way on a different system then it is not likely to work. Step forwards in a virtual world by moving the mouse or press the up arrow. If you are afk you would need to use your legs or arms (or someone else's) (ignoring those fancy motorised wheelchairs). Then if you try swimming - again, the up arrow is probably not going to help unless you are Lara Croft. LibreOffice is NOT just a cheap knock-off of MS Office. It has different ways of doing things. A different ethos. Sometimes it does things that MSO can't. Sometimes it leaves certain things, such as emailing, to other products so that you can choose between alternatives to suit your needs. I tend to find it is the newer users that have not yet learned bad habits that find it the easiest to use LibreOffice. It's the people that have invested a lot of time into learning MSO and thinking the MS way that have more trouble with it. My point was that people who have systems that do work well and smoothly often seem to be more willing to try something else. They tend to be the ones that have the most confidence. Contrary to popular belief it's fairly rare for MS to actually develop something. They assimilate it. The creative work is done by small companies vying for recognition. When they make it big MS buys them out and absorbs the work, kills the competition, and is thus able to generate far more profit from the smaller company than the smaller company could have hoped to achieve. Usually it's a kind of win-win. Errr, i am about to get thrown off this list again for disagreeing with the TDF viewpoint aren't i? Regards from Tom :)
________________________________ From: Andrew Brown <andrewbr@icon.co.za> To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Paul <paulsteyn1@afrihost.co.za>; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013, 8:08 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Errores de certificado en la web Hi all As to Tom's reference about broken systems, I cannot wholly agree. In my years of IT support to many clients and still current, I find resistance to change is more about a way of learning to do something with software apps, broken or not, and then having to relearn it, when approached with another similiar software app. In my recent post of two issues I have with Calc and Writer, my case in point, MSO can do the items I mentioned with no issues whatsoever, now that I have migrated users over to LO, they try exactly the same thing in LO and it fails. We of the higher computer levels forget that the majority of users are exactly that, users who want a simple way of doing their work without complications added. So this creates resistance to change of new/different products, the "other" competing products must be able to do the same for the base standard i.e. what MS systems have set as a precedence, whether we like it or not, for a good user experience, to get them to change over to a better system. As the old analogy goes, equal to or better. Cheers Andrew Brown On 18/07/2013 07:44 PM, Tom Davies wrote:Hi :) I think all of us here are on roughly the same side. It's just a case of trying to work out what works when and what doesn't. I haven't had a huge amount of success in converting MS users to LO. People seem to prefer sticking with broken mangled systems that don't do what they want rather than risk change. The more broken the system the more they resist change. Hence IE6 users being scared to death of trying anything else Regards from Tom :)________________________________ From: Paul <paulsteyn1@afrihost.co.za> To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 12:30 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Errores de certificado en la web Hi,Or you could just install FireFox and be done with the problems ..Well, as Tom says, I don't think it's usefull to just say "Get a new browser". Also, if the certificate is actually wrong, then it should be corrected, there really is no good reason it should be wrong, and switching browsers to not have to see the error is not a real solution. That said......Or LO webmasters could just stop being idiots and not offer a certificate for *.documentfoundation.org for libreoffice.org?That's maybe ever so slightly harsh. I just checked in Firefox, and the certificate for https://www.libreoffice.org has a certificate with a CN for www.libreoffice.org, so I'm not sure what the problem is... unless of course they've already fixed it. Just sayin' Paul On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:05:07 +0100 (BST) Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:Hi :) I kinda agree but even though IE has recently become a minority share of the web-browser market it is still used by quite a lot of people. Usually those people are clueless about the alternatives and/or seem to think they are using a superior product because they haven't really tried anything else. There's a LOT of them and we don't want to cut them out of our potential market. Telling them they have to change web-browser just to use LO just gives them an extra reason not to bother trying LO. It just makes yet another artificial barrier and increases the FUD. Something that does seem to surprise people and encourage them to install LO is that they can have both LO and MSO on their system. A dismaying number of people wont dare try LO because they think they have to get rid of their MSO. Similarly with web-browsers of course but that is not our fight. I'm credited with having written the 2nd paragraph below but it really wasn't me 1. Most of the web developers i know are ladies 2. If i had thought of it i would have written directly to the Websites List to ask them if they could do it. probably the only reason it might not have been done already is that they are a small team and are still working on it. However, i doubt that IE 9 needs a different certificate from IE 8 or that certificates made for IE 8 are incompatible with IE 9. It's always possible, of course, especially if it could make things difficult for LO without affecting too many other people. Most of the people on tis list probably are already using Firefox, Chrome, the Mac one, Opera or some other non-MS web-browser. We need to catch more people that haven't tried the others yet and maybe be their gateway into OpenSource. Regards from Tom :)________________________________ From: P NIKOLIC <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com> To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 7:29 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Errores de certificado en la web On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:05:57 +0700 "Urmas" <davian818@gmail.com> wrote:"Tom Davies": Note that IE is made by a 3rd party competitor that has good reason to want to see LibreOffice (and all other OpenSource products) fail. The more they can do to discredit LibreOffice the more likely they are to sell more of their own product and make more money. So, if IE doesn't behave we might not be able to do anything about it. ...Or LO webmasters could just stop being idiots and not offer a certificate for *.documentfoundation.org for libreoffice.org?Or you could just install FireFox and be done with the problems .. Pete . -- Linux 7-of-9 3.9.9-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Jul 3 22:45:16 CEST 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
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