Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Searchable PDFs from Graphite fonts

I just downloaded LibO 3.5.7.2 to my Win7 computer and tried again. Same 
results as with 3.5.6.2 for Win7 and 3.6.2.2 for Ubuntu.

I'm running a dual boot Win7/Ubuntu laptop and the results have been 
consistent across platforms and different versions of the program.

LibO, whether for Win7 or Ubuntu, produces PDFs that cannot find "official" 
with the "ffi" ligature and insert an additional "h" before "i" upon a cut 
and paste from the PDF file.

AOO does not share this behavior.

Virgil

-----Original Message----- 
From: VA
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:34 PM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Searchable PDFs from Graphite fonts

Okay, I just tested it with LibreOffice 3.6.2.2 for 64-bit Ubuntu (the
version I got when I just clicked on "Download" at the LibO website) and
got identical results. I used both Document Viewer and Okular to view
the PDF file. In both cases, the search function found "This" with the
"Th" ligature, but not "official" with the "ffi" ligature. Cutting and
pasting the text from the PDF file to GEdit also produced the rogue
additional "h" before each "i".

I then ran the same test with Apache OpenOffice 3.4.1 for Ubuntu and all
was fine, just as it was on my Win7 setup.

My next test will be to download the latest version of LibO for Windows
and try it again there.

I'm also wondering if the version of Linux Libertine G matters. Even if
it does, it is clear that, at least on my computer, Apache OpenOffice is
rendering it properly in a PDF file and LibO is not. Since I'm not a
developer, I have no idea why.

I agree that Apache and Libre have different licensing structures, but
as an end-user, not a developer, I don't particularly care. Both AOO and
LibO are free to use by users for any purpose without restriction. As a
user, I view the differences in the programs in terms of what they do
for me, not in how they are licensed.

Right now, on my computer, AOO works better with the Libertine G fonts,
but LibO has accurate US-English hyphenation.

So, my solution, which I hate, is to keep both programs on my computer
and load the one that meets my particular need at a given time. When I
need good Libertine G support, I use AOO; if I need good hyphenation, I
load LibO. I refuse to get sucked into licensing battles between two
very similar programs. I just want to get my work done.

Virgil



On 10/31/2012 02:27 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> I tested it with 3.5.7 for 64-bit Ubuntu [.deb] and I do not see the issue 
> at all.  I use the default PDF viewer as well.
>
> I wonder if it was fixed between 3.5.6 and 3.5.7?
>
> OR - Could it look different in a different viewer that the "official" 
> Adobe Reader?
>
> I do have both the Linux Libertine G and the non-G versions.  I used the 
> uploaded text file and tested it.  The PDF output with "Export to PDF" did 
> not give me any issue.
>
> As for the "best of both packages", in some articles I have read, AOO is 
> taking the "best" of LO coding and including it into their package, since 
> LO developer really have made a large amount of work cleaning and 
> improving the base code from the OOo 3.x base code days.  The big problem, 
> IMO, is the licensing issue.  AOO has a different approach, so I have been 
> told, and it is not as "flexible" for the rights of the individual 
> developers as the LO project has.  AOO can use LO's code, but LO's 
> licensing approach will not allow AOO coding to be "easily" a part LO's 
> package unless there is a revamping of the way the developers keep their 
> ownership of their work. [or so I have been told in my reading].
>
> As for the Libertine font itself, I see the following in my font window:
>
>    Linux Libertine
>    Linux Libertine Capitals
>    Linux Libertine Display
>    Linux Libertine Display Capitals
>    Linux Libertine G
>    Linux Libertine Initials
>    Linux Libertine Slanted.
>
>
> I also have:
>
>    Linux Biolinum
>    Linux Biolinum Captials
>    Linux Biolinum G
>    Linux Biolinum Keyboard
>    Linux Biolinum Outline
>    Linux Biolinum Shadow
>    Linux Biolinum Slanted
>
> I do not use Libertine or Biolinum "much", since about 1/3 of the things I 
> do I tend to go to others for editing in the Windows and non-LO 
> environment.  They use the MS core fonts.  Now if I was to send out in 
> PDFs, then I can embed the fonts in the documents and therefore could use 
> these fonts.  With over 14 Gigi of font files to choose from, I tend to 
> get lost in who has and who do not have the fonts I use on a weekly basis.
>
>
> On 10/31/2012 01:39 PM, VA wrote:
> > Interesting problem. Based on my tests, which I detail below, it appears 
> > to be LibO bug rather than a font problem.
> >
> > I'm using LibO 3.5.6.2 with Win7 and Adobe Reader.
> >
> > In the sentence "This is the official version" with Linux Libertine G, 
> > there are two instances of automatic ligatures--the "Th" combination in 
> > "This," and the "ffi" combination in "official." In Adobe Reader, I aas 
> > able to find "This" when I did a search, which means that the Reader 
> > recognized the "Th" ligature as a "T" followed by an "h" which is what I 
> > typed into the search box. But, when I tried to search for "official" the 
> > Adobe Reader couldn't find it, which means it did NOT associate my typing 
> > of an "f", "f", "I" with the "ffi" ligature.
> >
> > Then when I copied and pasted the sentence from the PDF file into a plain 
> > text editor, it placed an "h" before every instance of an "i" just as was 
> > reported. However, this obviously has nothing to do with ligatures as 
> > most of the instances of "i" were NOT included in the ligatures. In fact, 
> > it did not place an "h" before the "i" in the "ffi" ligature.
> >
> > For comparison, I ran the same test using Apache OpenOffice 3.4.1. to see 
> > if it is a font issue or a program issue. I'm sorry to report that it 
> > appears to be a program issue. In AOO, I typed the same sentence using 
> > Linux Libertine G, "This is the official version." I then saved it as a 
> > PDF and opened it in Adobe Reader. This time, a search found both "This" 
> > and "official" despite both words containing ligatures. And, when I 
> > copied the sentence into a plain text editor, it copied correctly without 
> > any additions of "h" before "i".
> >
> > I love the Linux Libertine set of fonts. I use it, not only with LibO and 
> > AOO, but also when I set a document in LaTeX.
> >
> > I have found that Apache OpenOffice's support for Linux Libertine G 
> > appears to be more complete and polished than LibO's. This may be an 
> > example of that more complete support.
> >
> > Of course, LibO has its advantages over AOO; for example, it properly 
> > hyphenates American English words, with AOO does not appear to do. It 
> > would be nice if someone could combine the best of both programs into one 
> > complete program (along with the tabbed interface of Lotus Symphony, yet 
> > a third fork of the original OO). But, I won't hold my breath.
> >
> > Virgil
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Dan Lewis
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:02 AM
> > To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Searchable PDFs from Graphite fonts
> >
> > On 10/30/2012 11:08 PM, Jonathan Schultz wrote:
> > > > I can select the text in the PDF, copy and paste, but get an 'h'
> > > > added before most 'i'. I can search, but not if the word is one with
> > > > the extra h before i Steve
> > >
> > > That's exactly what I mean. It effectively means no searching.
> > >
> > > > I tried both Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinum [14 point] on my
> > > > 3.5.7 version for Ubuntu 64-bit.  I cannot replicate the issue with
> > > > "added" characters.
> > >
> > > Were you using Graphite fonts ('Libertine G'/'Biolinum G')? Those are 
> > > the ones where the problem arises. Those are also the fonts that do 
> > > ligatures and other lovely typesetting things that make them look so 
> > > nice, which I why I want to use them.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jonathan
> >      Seems to me that you have solved your own problem: it is the
> > fonts. The search function can not handle the the lovely typesetting
> > things. As you mentioned, an "i" looks like a "hi" to it. The only real
> > solution is to not use any of the Graphite fonts in a PDF.
> >      But if you want to search the PDF, have you opened it in Draw and
> > search for the text in it?
> >
> > --Dan


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