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Hi Tom,
Thank you for a very informative answer - it is bad that all this is not mentioned as a basic info about LibO. I am prepared to trust it as true but honestly I have to rely on my own experiences both regarding Win/MSO and LibO.

I have been using Windows and many of MS programs since early 1980: all of the modules in the MSO suite, Access, Publisher, Visio, Project, etc
>>    never any problems with installing
>>    never need to send any kind of bug reports
>>    never any need to contact any community/list for help
>>    cannot remember not one machine crash when using Windows-MS-programs
>> no courses, no teachers in using Windows/MS programs -- I had no problems to learn all by my self mostly thanks to a good help function; when I was working as IT-help/help desk I could even tutor my colleagues in Word, Excel, PP, Access how to use the special features and functions >> made a lot of Access-dbs, learned to complete them with VBA and got macros work

Some /_facts_/ about LibO (first 3.4.5, then 3.4.6 -- I didn't dare to install later versions, so now back to OO) >> in January this year after downloading LibO I had big problems/crashes with getting Base ("similar" to MSAccess) working - reason: JRE and bad guidings >> some basic features/functions in Base does not work -- no help from "LibO help" nor "Base Guide" >> I have some rather big (heavy) applications in Calc (several sheets, 200 rows&15-30 cols/sheet, remote referenses between sheets) - I've noticed (when tracking why results are wrong) that Calc in some situations does not have "power" enough to do the automatic recalc through all the rows/cols/pages: there is nothing wrong, it just does not do the recalc -- which means that I cannot trust the calcs to be 100% correct; this is not only inconvenient but can be fatal in economical calcs (my computers do most certainly have all the power needed) >> the button "LibreOffice Help" does not directly lead to any kind of help -- the function is totally of no use until you first learn it's logic (if any) -- to find any help can take hours of digging

I should very much like to use LibO only (not only because of costs) but cannot afford wasting time and nerves on all the problems. According to this list there are -- in my opinion -- too many others having problems already from the very beginning, with installing.

For me -- I represent the ordinary non-LibO-expert user -- it is obvious why not only companies rely on Windows/MSO. I can not see that this is anything to argue about: LibO must be easy-to-use, stable and free from any basic problems if it wants to be really accepted. Note: I am talking about ordinary people and ordinary companies, who value their time.
Pertti Rönnberg

On 27.9.2012 17:07, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
On the contrary. MS do not fix their problems quickly at all. Even known malware threats remain for months and even years. Their strategy is to blame the users. A typical one being to tell users they shouldn't be using macros because of the likelihood of getting an infected or corrupted one. Read "The Emperor’s New Clothes". People are told that MS Office is the best and so when they find problems with it they tend to blame themselves rather than the software.

For example when using non-MS software someone would quite happily slate the product with this sort of thing "I opened my document and deleted tons of stuff and saved it using the same name. now when i open the document it has all that stuff missing! The stupid program can't even find the stuff that i deleted. No, of course i don't have a back-up of the file before my deletions"

One problem that has never been solved is that when creating an MS document the style keeps randomly changing without the user doing anything noticeable. So, the language keeps switching to US. Bullet-points and numbering styles keep changing. So in a bulleted list the points keep changing shape, size and amount they are indented by. Numbered lists may well miss a few numbers or repeat a few or suddenly change from i), ii) to c), d) or other weirdness.

People have learned to accept all this shoddiness from Word because it happens to so many people. Really advanced users have learned to re-impose formatting after completing a document or just accept it.

Spelling has gone out the window not just because of the MTV generation but also because MS's spell-checker keeps switching languages back into American (US) so things that are correct are sometimes given a red-wriggle and sometimes blatantly incorrect spellings are not found.

LibreOffice tends to stick to the same style throughout, unless the user has deliberately changed styles and is aware of having done so. So, bullet-points line-up and retain the same size. Likewise with numbered lists.

Another problem is the way Word can't handle images with much sophistication. MS produce a different product for people to buy. Publisher. Most of the functionality of publisher wouldn't be needed if Word wasn't such a Pos. Writer handles most things that Publisher does with more elegance and sophistication.

Another problem is the limited choices when exporting to Pdf. I often get posters and stuff from Word users that probably looked quite good at their end but the jpg compression has made a mad swirly mess of it. LibreOffice allows you to set the type of compression and even allows people to create uncompressed Pdfs. Pdfs can be created with various levels of integration with screen-readers for blind-users. MS Word has limited options.

So, LO already is a far better product in many, many ways but people have learned to accept problems with MS stuff and are even happy when their machine is heavily infected with malware that results from using MS junk.

Just my opinion and doubtless many people, especially the BoD disagree.
Regards from
Tom :)

    *From:* Pertti Rönnberg <>
    *Sent:* Thursday, 27 September 2012, 14:04
    *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people
    will now start renting their office products instead

    All the best LibO folks,
    This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting perhaps
    also useful -- but back to the basic question!
    Microsoft is going to change their behavior.

    Let us remember that MS is the absolute market leader -- they
    can't be totally wrong when having 95% and people accept paying.
    It is no use blaming MS for success -- it is only waste of energy
    and expresses your foolishness.  LibO only have to accept it.

    Whether you like it or not MS's programs use to work without
    remarkable problems - and if such happens MS fixes them rather
    That is why people and especially companies seem to be prepaired
    to pay what ever the cost.

    What I have tried to say is that if LibO wants to get a reasonable
    share oh this cake -- free of charge or not -- then LibO must
    offer and also deliver something better than the MS's Office suit
    it's Access included -- equal is far away from enough.

    Some of you said that ordinary users -- and even more experienced
    - seldom use more than a 2-5%  of the LibO's (MSO's) features.
    Why not then identify the 30% of all most used features and make
    sure that at least these work properly -- Base included.

    If LibO cannot be made at least as stable, free of bugs and easy
    to use -- and especially it's help function understandable for
    every new user -- then there is no larger future for LibO except
    for a small group of idealists and enthusiasts in their own little
    I see this as a question of defining priorities - and a strategy.
    If the goal seems clear and clever then then the resources will at
    least not disappear.
    Pertti Rönnberg

    On 27.9.2012 10:08, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
    > On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
    >> I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive system for an
    extension to help with the syncing to a Google account.
    > Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you can use Caldav
    which doesn't require any extension at all.


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