Date: prev next · Thread: first prev next last
2012 Archives by date, by thread · List index

A comment just from a user's point of view.

I used Lo and MSO in parallel for about 6 month and changed recently over to LO only.

Writer and Calc is for me in general so far better then the MSO. Impress has some problems (calling custom shows) I found a kind of work around.

The other LO application I have not used yet.

I think if the development team keeps going in a focussed way to catch up some issues LO is already a good alternative to MSO. And it is available for folks with less or no money for a office suit.

I try to contribute by reporting bugs and giving answers to questions.

Porposal: Let's take the information on MS asking for rental fees and keep in working with and on LO to get another percent point of market shares. Keep in that event the biggest cake gets eaten in small pieces..

On 2012-09-28 04:43, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
I agree that Base seems a bit of a mess but if you follow Andreas' guidance then it hopefully works 
better.  There are other people on this list that are great at helping with Base but he seems 
better at giving a better over-view of Base.  Most of the problems appear to be with wizards and 
stuff.  Also it's a very different thing than Access so trying to wrap your head around the basic 
concept is a major Pita.  I wouldn't migrate your databases from Access to Base just yet.  Just 
settle in with the rest of LO first.  Base doesn't seem to have so many devs working on it as the 
other apps but it may gain a few in a month or so.  The docs team are working on an excellent 
handbook for Base which may help people understand it better and once you understand the basic 
ideas it's really quite exciting (imo).  Tons of potential but needs a good pruning before it can 
really grow.

Impress is also not so great at the moment but at least it's easier to understand what you want 
from it and it kinda makes sense.  Again, seems to have less devs than Writer or Calc.  Draw seems 
to be more popular and seems to gain more attention for the increases in it's functionality.

Generally i would avoid the early release in any branch.  I like to try them but only on one of my own 
systems, not on any of my colleagues.  It's good to try the x.x.0 - x.x.3 but just for your own benefit, to 
post bug-reports against and hopefully catch the interest of the most possible devs before they move on to 
other things (such as the next branch).  Each branch becomes much more stable by the x.x.4 and from then on 
just increases in stability without gaining much extra functionality.  Better stability means you are less 
likely to find something that needs to have a bug-report posted.  The x.x.6 tends to be very solid.  Think of 
that 3rd number as a "Service Pack" but divide by 2 because MS only goes up to Sp3.

I suspect the recalculation in Calc might be a memory issue?  Perhaps try
Tools - Options - Memory
and bump a lot of those values up.  Also look in
Tools - Options - Calc
to see if something weird is in there.  There is a key that forces recalculation but i don't know 

The in-built help files are not as useful as the official documentation.  You can get the latest 
and even pre-release guides from
Some of the 3.3.x guides have been translated into a few other languages but not many.  To get the 
in-built help you have to download it and then install after installing the main part of LO.  For 
example the 2nd 'button' on
Note that you can choose from many other languages.  That link is for English (Gb/Uk) but for my 
colleagues i have added Gujaratii, Italian, Japanese and more so that different logins on those 
machines can have different languages.

I definitely agree that LO needs to far exceed MS Office in order to even get looked at.  In many ways i think it 
is far better but i can admit that it does have apparent weaknesses that are more likely to be noticed than the 
good stuff.  It's the same for people from any minority group.  If you are 10 times better but they notice 1 
thing they think is odd then they focus on the 1 thing.  However, as Gandhi said "First they ignore you.  
Then they laugh at you.  Then they fight you.  Then you win" so don't be discouraged.  I think LO has pushed 
things from a decade of being stifled in step 1 into somewhere between 2 & 3 and in some places (such as 
Brasil) step 4 already!

When migrating away from MSO it's usually better to keep using it but gradually use LO more but at 
the start only for a few things or even just one or two things until you get more familiar with the 
Regards from
Tom :)

From: Pertti Rönnberg <>
To: Tom Davies <>
Cc: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012, 18:27
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office 
products instead

Hi Tom,
Thank you for a very informative answer - it is bad that all this
       is not mentioned as a basic info about LibO.
I am prepared to trust it as true but honestly I have to rely on
       my own experiences both regarding Win/MSO and LibO.
I have been using Windows and many of MS programs since early
       1980:  all of the modules in the MSO suite, Access, Publisher,
       Visio, Project, etc
     never any problems with installing
     never need to send any kind of bug reports
     never any need to contact any community/list for help
    cannot remember not one machine crash when using
     no courses, no teachers in using Windows/MS programs
       -- I had no problems to learn all by my self mostly thanks to a
       good help function;  when I was working as IT-help/help desk I
       could even tutor my colleagues in Word, Excel, PP, Access how to
       use the special features and functions
     made a lot of Access-dbs, learned to complete them
       with VBA and got macros work
Some facts about LibO (first 3.4.5, then 3.4.6 -- I didn't dare to install later versions, so now 
back to OO)
     in January this year after downloading LibO I had big
       problems/crashes with getting Base ("similar" to MSAccess) working
       - reason: JRE and bad guidings
     some basic features/functions in Base does not work --
       no help from "LibO help" nor "Base Guide"
     I have some rather big (heavy) applications in Calc
       (several sheets, 200 rows&15-30 cols/sheet, remote references
       between sheets) - I've noticed (when tracking why results are
       wrong) that Calc in some situations does not have "power" enough
       to do the automatic recalc through all the rows/cols/pages: there
       is nothing wrong, it just does not do the recalc -- which means
       that I cannot trust the calcs to be 100% correct;  this is not
       only inconvenient but can be fatal in economical calcs   (my
       computers do most certainly have all the power needed)
     the button "LibreOffice Help" does not directly lead
       to any kind of help -- the function is totally of no use until you
       first learn it's logic (if any) -- to find any help can take hours
       of digging
I should very much like to use LibO only (not only because of
       costs) but cannot afford wasting time and nerves on all the
According to this list there are -- in my opinion -- too many
       others having problems already from the very beginning, with
For me -- I represent the ordinary non-LibO-expert user -- it is
       obvious why not only companies rely on Windows/MSO.
I can not see that this is anything to argue about: LibO must be
       easy-to-use, stable and free from any basic problems if it wants
       to be really accepted.
Note: I am talking about ordinary people and ordinary companies,
       who value their time.
Pertti Rönnberg

On 27.9.2012 17:07, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
On the contrary. MS do not fix their problems quickly at all.
         Even known malware threats remain for months and even years.
         Their strategy is to blame the users.  A typical one being to
         tell users they shouldn't be using macros because of the
         likelihood of getting an infected or corrupted one.  Read "The
         Emperor’s New Clothes".  People are told that MS Office is the
         best and so when they find problems with it they tend to blame
         themselves rather than the software.
For example when using non-MS software someone would quite
         happily slate the product with this sort of thing "I opened my
         document and deleted tons of stuff and saved it using the same
         name.  now when i open the document it has all that stuff
         missing!  The stupid program can't even find the stuff that i
         deleted.  No, of course i don't have a back-up of the file
         before my deletions"
One problem that has never been solved is that when creating an
         MS document the style keeps randomly changing without the user
         doing anything noticeable.  So, the language keeps switching to
         US.  Bullet-points and numbering styles keep changing.  So in a
         bulleted list the points keep changing shape, size and amount
         they are indented by.  Numbered lists may well miss a few
         numbers or repeat a few or suddenly change from i), ii) to c),
         d) or other weirdness.
People have learned to accept all this shoddiness from Word
         because it happens to so many people.  Really advanced users
         have learned to re-impose formatting after completing a document
         or just accept it.
Spelling has gone out the window not just because of the MTV
         generation but also because MS's spell-checker keeps switching
         languages back into American (US) so things that are correct are
         sometimes given a red-wriggle and sometimes blatantly incorrect
         spellings are not found.

LibreOffice tends to stick to the same style throughout, unless
         the user has deliberately changed styles and is aware of having
         done so.  So, bullet-points line-up and retain the same size.
         Likewise with numbered lists.

Another problem is the way Word can't handle images with much
         sophistication.  MS produce a different product for people to
         buy.  Publisher.  Most of the functionality of publisher
         wouldn't be needed if Word wasn't such a Pos.  Writer handles
         most things that Publisher does with more elegance and

Another problem is the limited choices when exporting to Pdf.  I
         often get posters and stuff from Word users that probably looked
         quite good at their end but the jpg compression has made a mad
         swirly mess of it.  LibreOffice allows you to set the type of
         compression and even allows people to create uncompressed Pdfs.
         Pdfs can be created with various levels of integration with
         screen-readers for blind-users.  MS Word has limited options.
So, LO already is a far better product in many, many ways but
         people have learned to accept problems with MS stuff and are
         even happy when their machine is heavily infected with malware
         that results from using MS junk.
Just my opinion and doubtless many people, especially the BoD
Regards from
Tom :)

From: Pertti Rönnberg <>
Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012, 14:04
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office 
products instead

All the best LibO folks,
This discussion about calendars etc. may be interesting
                 perhaps also useful -- but back to the basic question!
Microsoft is going to change their behavior.

Let us remember that MS is the absolute market leader --
                 they can't be totally wrong when having 95% and people
                 accept paying.
It is no use blaming MS for success -- it is only waste
                 of energy and expresses your foolishness.  LibO only
                 have to accept it.
Whether you like it or not MS's programs use to work
                 without remarkable problems - and if such happens MS
                 fixes them rather quickly.
That is why people and especially companies seem to be
                 prepaired to pay what ever the cost.
What I have tried to say is that if LibO wants to get a
                 reasonable share oh this cake -- free of charge or not
                 -- then LibO must offer and also deliver something
                 better than the MS's Office suit it's Access included --
                 equal is far away from enough.
Some of you said that ordinary users -- and even more
                 experienced - seldom use more than a 2-5%  of the LibO's
                 (MSO's) features.
Why not then identify the 30% of all most used features
                 and make sure that at least these work properly -- Base
If LibO cannot be made at least as stable, free of bugs
                 and easy to use -- and especially it's help function
                 understandable for every new user -- then there is no
                 larger future for LibO except for a small group of
                 idealists and enthusiasts in their own little
I see this as a question of defining priorities - and a
If the goal seems clear and clever then then the
                 resources will at least not disappear.
Pertti Rönnberg

On 27.9.2012 10:08, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
On 26/09/12 12:01, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
I have seen listings on Mozilla's archive
                 system for an extension to help with the syncing to a
                 Google account.
Don't need any of those for Google Calendar - you
                 can use Caldav which doesn't require any extension at

-- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to:
Posting guidelines + more:
List archive:
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived
                 and cannot be deleted

For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to:
Posting guidelines + more:
List archive:
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted


Privacy Policy | Impressum (Legal Info) | Copyright information: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images on this website are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License. This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2). "LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use thereof is explained in our trademark policy.