Re: [libreoffice-users] database or spreadsheet

On 02/06/2012 01:22 PM, Dan Lewis wrote:
>        Or maybe the failure is the refusal to understand the purpose for
> each part of a database. Tables and forms are for adding, modifying, and
> deleting data. Queries and reports are for data output. If you want to
> enter data, you use a table or form. If you want to manipulate data, you
> use queries. (With Report Builder, you can also manipulate data in a
> report.)
>       In Calc spreadsheets, we give columns names; in Base tables, our
> column names are called field names. In Calc spreadsheets, we have rows
> of data; in Base tables, we call the rows of data, records. In Calc
> spreadsheets, we format our columns; in Base tables, we select a field
> type and field properties to format our fields (columns).
>       The output of a query is a table: combination of rows and columns.
> In this is much like a section of rows and columns of a spreadsheet
> whose cells contained manipulated data.
>       Calc formulas are based upon Algebra; so are the formulas that SQL
> uses.
>       I can clearly identify why most people don't use databases: they
> don't think they can. Perhaps it is also fear of the unknown. Perhaps
> they don't want to learn something new: "You can't teach an old dog new
> tricks." And perhaps the biggest reason of all: the specialized language
> that is used by many people who write about databases. Tuples and
> Records are used instead of rows is one example. Columns are called
I think part of the problem is that most people do not understand the 
basic difference between a spreadsheet and database. Spreadsheets are 
very good models of ledger books and basic data tables. Databases do not 
have a very good paper based analog; the closet is probably a library 
card catalog. However, databases are actually much better at relational 
analysis than a spreadsheet but one must learn SQL typically while with 
a spreadsheet you can start without much "programming" to use it. Also, 
databases take more initial work to set up than a spreadsheet.

A further problem is that MSO often does not include Access in all the 
bundles, such as Student/Teachers or some of the business bundles. This 
adds to the perception that the database is a "geek" thing not something 
that is for the general user. The thinking is that databases must be 
very hard or MS would have put in the bundle for more general users.

Personally, I have found databases to be more flexible than spreadsheets 
for many applications.
> Attributes.
>       I wonder how many people who use LO have read chapter 8 of the
> Getting Started Gude, "Getting Started with Base"? I know that I have
> very seldom seen a comment about its contents. (I wrote it and am
> presently updating it. I'm also working on the Base Guide in its
> entirety.)
>
> Dan
>
> On Mon, 2012-02-06 at 12:24 -0500, Paul D. Mirowsky wrote:
> > Everybody knows how write simple math statement as a formula.  Everybody
> > doesn't know how to right an SQL statement.
> >
> > The largest failure to using database vs. spreadsheet is the refusal to
> > allow tables to set up formulas in databases as they are in spreadsheets.
> >
> > A formula interpreter would quickly resolve inherent coding fear of
> > database.
> >
> > Reason for not doing this. I don't know.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/6/2012 10:37 AM, e-letter wrote:
> > > Readers,
> > >
> > > There was an interesting discussion which seemed to be about using
> > > accounting principles/conventions with computer software.
> > >
> > > Clearly the original poster forgot to dispense with traditional
> > > thought processes and think critically about how new tools (first the
> > > computer, then more specifically open source software) offers the
> > > opportunity to develop new methods for solving problems.
> > >
> > > We read the all-too-common scenario: an m$ fan wanting to use LO as an
> > > m$ clone without learning anything new or assessing whether there is a
> > > better way of doing things. As always, such people want open source
> > > software users to help them for free. Please reconsider and revert to
> > > using m$; the fact that the problem was solved using m$ proves this
> > > option.
> > >
> > > m$ users, please take the time to do your homework, research the
> > > alternatives before asking for open source software to adopt the same
> > > behaviour, mentality and sometimes inefficient process to performing
> > > tasks as m$.
> > >
> > > The example of organising identical data types into multiple
> > > spreadsheets is so common, primarily because the average "office"
> > > personnel is not introduced (nor willing to accept) to the power of
> > > databases.
> > >
> > > Realistically, we cannot expect someone due to retire soon to suddenly
> > > change, but the next generation should be encouraged to be open minded
> > > to using new ideas.
> > >
> > > By the way, thank you for the hyperlink to the data pilot functions,
> > > but should this type of functionality be performed by learning how to
> > > use relational database queries?


--
Jay Lozier
jslozier@gmail.com


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