Re: [OT]<F6>[libreoffice-users] LibreOffice and OpenOffice

On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 01:17:52AM -0700, Ken Springer wrote:
> Hi, Robert,
>
> Before I get to my responses, some comments.
>
> I'm going to write my comments in blue.  I don't know if the color will be
> retained as the message goes through the system, but if it does, it will
> make it easier to know which of my comments are for this submission.

A. You're posting to a mailing list in HTML? You don't know any better?
B. You don't know that any decent MUA or news reader will indicate quotes?
How long did you say you've been on the internet?

        ........snip of superfluous crap no one cares about.........

> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:29 PM, Robert Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:44:15PM -0700, Ken Springer wrote:

          .........snip........

> > > It's user support where things fall flat on it's face.  I only have one
> > > person in my family and friends who would even have a clue as to how to
> > > utilize a mailing list.  It's way too cumbersome and clunky for the
> > people I
> > > know.  Even I had trouble figuring this one out!  LOL
> >
> > That's hard to believe. Mailing lists are dead simple assuming the
> > ability to read with comprehension. You're only correct if your
> > definition of user support is individual personal hand holding.
>
> Reading with comprehension is not universal.

So?

     ........snip of yet more superfluous crap........
 
> > > There are a lot of users out there, I believe, that could make use of
> > open
> > > source software, but these people usually don't even understand
> > > directories/folders, partitioning, the very basics of using a computer.
> > > When I start to talk to them about disk cleanup and defragging (Windows),
> > > you should see the blank faces I encounter.  :-)
> >
> > Little of this is necessary to use the GUI (graphical user interface).
>
> As I wrote in another post, any particular GUI is not universally intuitive
> to everyone.

Intuitiveness has nothing to do with it. 

> > > But surprisingly, some of them have figured out how to use forums.  Even
> > > thought a lot of the forums have very nice editors, the fourms seem to be
> > > lousy when it comes to instructions on how to use the editor.  The Open
> > > Office forum editor has the /list commands, but how my average people
> > will
> > > know anything about using HTML commands?
> >
> > What HTML commands are needed to use an editor?
>
> If you go to the full editor in the Open Office forums, you'll find the
> following commands listed across the top of the reply window:  Code, List,
> List=, Img, Table=, Aligntable=, etc.  When you click the button, the
> formatting is essentially like using HTML.  I've always believed this just
> to be a customized version/offshoot of HTML, if you will, and modified so it
> doesn't interfere with regular HTML code.
>
> I will admit I could be wrong about that, but I believe the observation
> still stands, how is the average user supposed to easily understand how to
> implement those codes?

These codes aren't required to post a simple message. 

         ........snip........
 
> > > I will own up to not looking for
> > > instructions, but there's also no link to instructions that I've spotted.
> >
> > Not looking for instructions is your own fault.
>
> :: big grin ::  I do believe I admitted that.

Yes, but that doesn't excuse it.

> > > Searching the help info tends to be a PITA.
> >
> > Using a search engine is a PITA?
>
> I will give you this point.  I went back and reread what I wrote, and I
> could have worded it differently and better!  :-)  I was not referring to
> search engines like Google, Ask.com, etc.  I was referring to things like
> the mail archives here for Libre Office.  I don't spend a lot of time asking
> for help.  So, if I want to search the last year's mail for a particular
> subject, I've not figured out how to search a years' worth of messages
> efficiently.

Don't know how to use the Edit > Find browser function, huh? 

> I've only been here less than a week, and searching the site for help files
> just isn't a high priority at the moment.  I do have other responsibilities
> that come before this.

Then don't complain about the difficulty of searching.

> When it comes to using something like Google, so much of it depends on
> selecting the correct search terms, and I'm lousy at it.  I can search for X
> for a half hour, and pretty much come up empty.  Yet I have a sister I can
> ask to search for X for me, and she'll find it in 5 minutes.  Irritates the
> Devil out of me!   LOL  I could be using the term "bucket", and find
> nothing.  She'll use "pail", and find it.  It all depends on the search
> terms chosen.

That's your fault, not the developers'.

> > If M$ online support is in the toilet and you don't recommend OSS, what
> > do you recommend to new users? *gasp* MAC?
>
> Oh, come on, Robert!  :-)  Let's not get into the "my OS is better than your
> OS" discussion.

With me it's a matter of not liking to give my money to a control freak.
  
> > Again, why is using these search engines a PITA? Do you expect to find
> > information without expending any effort?
>
> It's not a question of expending effort, but a question of how much effort
> you need to expend.

No, it's laziness.

          .........snip..........

> > So, because information isn't as easy to find as *you* think it should
> > be, you will discourage new users from trying OSS.
>
> Correct.  Because in general, they are totally lost using the majority of a
> computer's ability.  From your comments here, I do think you would find it
> hard to understand the very simple and basic computer questions I get asked.

No I wouldn't. I've heard them all, including "Why shouldn't I  shut
down the computer by just pushing the on-off button?".
 
One more thing. Learn not to over quote.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer"

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