Re: [libreoffice-design] Styles - thread on styles vs direct format

On 8/6/25 02:27, Noh Jose wrote:
> I am just noting that both are possible and may be used in any 
> order at any time. Orthogonal to that observation I noted that DF 
> operates on ONE attribute of an object but a style operates on ALL 
> attributes of an object - even if the user has only changed ONE or a FEW 
> attributes from their default values.
>
> The result of this, of necessity, is a choice between keeping or 
> overriding the values first set.

The current model is --basically-- that DF overrides whatever formatting 
is calculated from styles, regardless of the time of application.

The simplified precedence is: Paragraph Styles first, overridden by 
Character Styles, overridden by Direct Formatting. This is regardless of 
time of application.

If the paragraph style calculate to "blue", the character style sets 
"green" and then the user applies "red" via DF, the text will be red. If 
a new paragraph or character style is applied which calculates the 
style-side to "brown", the text will still be red because the user 
explicitly asked for red. If you clear DF, it will become "brown". At 
least that's the main concept. Ideally, this makes it algorithmically 
simple and predictable.

However, this is difficult to grasp for some users, especially those 
more visually-driven than algorithmically-driven. I'd say this is most 
users, right? So there are some UI tweaks to make it easier for users, 
especially to easily "reset" inadvertent styles use. For example:

1. If at the beginning of a blank paragraph a style is chosen, DF is 
removed for future typing in that position.

2. If a user applies some DF to a whole paragraph (not part of it) and 
then applies a style, DF is removed. Highlight the whole paragraph and 
reapplying Default Paragraph Formatting, removes the highlighting.

#1 can thought as a specific case of #2.

3. Applying some DF to a part of a paragraph is not susceptible to 
resetting as mentioned in point #2. If you highlight part of a paragraph 
and reapply Default Paragraph Formatting, the highlighting is kept.

4. If on a DF-bolded word you click on Bold with the intention of 
"removing DF-bold", it will not "remove DF-bold". It will, instead, 
"apply Regular as DF". For some users this is good enough, but this 
makes the supposedly-reset text to behave according to points 2 or 3.

5. Page breaks pose a caveat: it is internally treated as a formatting 
attribute (Text Flow > Breaks > Insert, Position = Before). However, 
many (most?) users apply it using Ctrl+Enter or from the Menu: Insert > 
Page Break. So users think of it as an action or a special character or 
whatever, but something other than a formatting attribute. So, the page 
break formatting attribute is not removed when clearing DF.

There may be more but I remember those right now.

I am not saying I like or dislike any of these (though I do haha). It's 
a difficult balance.

Of course, removing DF does not remove Character Styles but this is not 
obvious to users. A user reset the paragraph styles, then remove Direct 
Formatting and, why is a word still bold? Even after "clear formatting" 
(not clear DF) the word is still bold. The user is supposed to apply the 
"No Character Style" character style.

My 0.02.

Octavio.

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