Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2023-Feb-15

Announcement 30 hours before the session is not announcement in advance. 
People - who do not work on LibreOffice on a daily basis and may have 
all sorts of things going on in their life - cannot be expected to 
reply, let alone make themselves available, at 30-hours' notice. If it 
were, say, a week - then you could say there's notice in advance.

Also, again, there's a difference between one issue by a person coming 
up for discussion, and several, constituting most of the session.

As for the two topics - the shorthand minutes entries about them suggest 
that the two issues were not discussed seriously, IMNSHO. At any rate, I 
commented on the bug pages to address both new comments and the relevant 
parts of the session minutes.

Eyal



On 16/02/2023 9:07, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> the meeting agenda is always announced in advance. This time it was on 
> Wednesday what I assume to be possible for you. You could have sent a 
> notice to postpone a topic.
>
> Flagging tickets as to-be-discussed sounds easy but adds noise to the 
> report and wouldn't solve your problem.
>
> For the two topics from yesterday I think one was unanimously 
> resolved/NAB and the other considered to not benefit the modification. 
> Please don't understand input from UX as a gatekeeper to the 
> development, you are free to reopen tickets and seek for response from 
> other people.
>
> Cheers,
> Heiko
>
> On 15.02.23 22:41, Eyal Rozenberg wrote:
> > Heiko, you again scheduled bugs of mine for a discussion without 
> > taking a moment to check whether I can join the meeting.
> >
> > I asked you not to do that and I'm asking you again. This is unfair, 
> > especially after I've explicitly asked that you not do that.
> >
> > The treatment of these bugs is usually entirely different based on 
> > whether I attend the session or not. What seems to happen when I'm not 
> > there is that the case for the issue is not made seriously, and thus 
> > objections or claims which I would probably be able to convincingly 
> > rebut or disprove are stated and accepted with no retort or objection.
> >
> > Now, I won't deny that this is not something specific to bugs I file: 
> > A user who does not have design committee participant support from the 
> > get-go, and who does not attend a committee session, will often not 
> > have any participant serve as the advocate or champion for that bug / 
> > that user - and may not get a "fair shake" in the evaluation of their 
> > bug.
> >
> > The difference in my case that you know that I can occasionally - but 
> > not always nor most times - attend. And session agendae are announced 
> > just a single day in advance, and not on the relevant bug pages - so, 
> > not enough time for me to notice. Finally, it is usually the case that 
> > multiple bugs I have filed are placed on the agenda for the same 
> > session, i.e. there are "Eyal's filings sessions", which are scheduled 
> > without me being able to react.
> >
> > This is quite inappropriate and I again ask that you stop doing that. 
> > Either ping me before scheduling my filings, or make the announcement 
> > a good number of days in advance.
> >
> > Also, and for the benefit of other bug filers, it would not be a bad 
> > idea to post a comment on the pages of bugs which are about to come up 
> > in committee, about the upcoming committee session.
> >
> > Eyal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15/02/2023 22:21, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> > > Present: John, Cor, Heiko
> > > Comments: Stuart, John, Pedro, Rafael
> > >
> > > Tickets/Topics
> > >
> > >   * Styles Preview should be able to show a grid of list
> > >     styles (Tabbed UI)
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153525
> > >     + a "More..." button could open the Stylist in the
> > >       sidebar (Stuart, Heiko)
> > >     + could be a small expander button on the lower right edge (Cor)
> > >     + strong support for a Tabbed NB in general and completely
> > >       implemented features in particular (John, Pedro, Rafael)
> > >     + take the full space is easy to achieve, expanding into a list
> > >       might a bit more difficult
> > >     => do it
> > >
> > >   * Most bundled page styles are nonsensical and/or redundant
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153534
> > >     + every single page style has a use case (Cor)
> > >     + never had any problems with the list of page styles (John)
> > >     + the (small) list can also be filtered (Heiko)
> > >     => resolve WF/NAB
> > >
> > >   * Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600
> > >     + label and help is clear (John)
> > >     + labeling it "Next paragraph style" adds no information and
> > >       it's reasonably clear what the dialog/label is talking
> > >       about (Cor)
> > >     => resolve WF/NAB
> > >
> > >   * Editing:- Feature Request "go to - special" feature needed
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149933
> > >     + introduce function to search for special content like blanks,
> > >       constants etc. sounds like a good idea (Cor)
> > >     + would be a comfortable shortcut for many searches (Heiko)
> > >     + alternatively we could have a special entry in the sidebar
> > >       + would be inconsistent as blank evaluates data while the
> > >         existing Navigator options detect model content (Cor)
> > >     => do it
> > >
> > >   * Change "heading level" to "outline level"
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152605
> > >       + see comment 14 for (tentatively accepted) proposal
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153499
> > >       + use index level for index entry outlines
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153596
> > >       + see also ToC dialog
> > >     => consistency in naming is good, go for it
> > >
> > >   * Permit "No User Input" as a data validation which would then
> > >     permit filter sorting
> > >     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149497
> > >     + reasonable request
> > >     + (Standard/Auto-) Filter work on protected sheets
> > >     + Sorting should work too, at least optional (Cor)
> > >     + afraid of data integrity issues aka references to a certain
> > >       cell that changes after sorting (Heiko)
> > >     + option should not be at data validation but at the
> > >       protect sheet dialog among the other exceptions (Heiko)
> > >       + has the drawback that it applies to the whole sheet (Cor)
> > >     => allow users to permit sorting

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