Re: Aw: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: Re: Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette

I downloaded the palettes availabe from
http://www.dtpstudio.de/palettes.html and looked at the CIE HLC palettes
for several of the software packages I am familiar with. None of the
palette files I looked at had any copyright notice of any kind, so I'm
wondering why it's necessary for the LibreColor-HLC.soc to contain a
copyright notice?

I understand the importance of protecting the integrity of the color
standard. I believe this could be done exactly the way LibreOffice protects
the integrity of it's product through the use of trademarks rather than
copyrights. Is it acceptable to include code in LO under a 3rd party
Trademark?

I think this approach of attaching a trademark, if acceptable to freieFarbe
e.V. and LO, would allow for more elegant integration into the source code,
and provide a greater user experience, with the assurance that users are
using an official palette. Users would then be able adjust the palette for
their own needs if desired, or make derivatives, such as creating a smaller
version for their own corporate branding colors. These derivatives would
simply no longer carry the trademark.

I think it makes a lot of sense for LO to be able to work with standards
organizations in ways that enhance user experience while preserving both
freedom and standards. Let's make the discussion about how to make it
happen, by offering solutions, and alternatives, rather than just pointing
out problems.

Taylor Jenkins




On Dec 12, 2016 12:31 AM, Christoph Schäfer <christoph-schaefer@gmx.de>
wrote:

Thank you, Heiko.

Some details may have been lost in translation, so I take the liberty to
clarify my position and situation.

1) I've been using this office suite since it was called StarOffice,
beginning with v. 3.0 Business Pack (or whatever it was called back then).
I tried others but always returned to StarOffice, OpenOffice.org, now
LibreOffice.

2) I still think LibreOffice and *especially* LibreOffice with its many
improvements and enhancements is the best Office Suite out there, at least
for my needs. Its style management is second to none, and the list of
import filters is breathtaking.

3) I've tested a lot of closed and open source Office Suites for use in
cross-media workflows, and there's only a single one I can recommend,
namely LO.

4) freieFarbe e.V. is a non-profit organisation, dedicated to liberate
colour from its proprietary chains (Pantone, RAL etc.) and to establish
truly free colour systems based on open standards like CIE L*a*b*.

5) We hoped to create a win-win situation by offering LibreOffice the
integration of the HLC palette. Since there is a very good physical colour
fan available at a low price, which has been thoroughly tested in all kinds
of workflows, it would help promoting LibreOffice as the office suite of
choice in many creative departments or for self-employed creatives. The
advantage for freieFarbe was supposed to be the promotion of its
vendor-independent colour standard with a tried-and-tested HLC colour
palette.

6) I'm not opposed to an extension, but I haven't created one before, and I
simply do not have the time to get acquainted with all of the necessary
details before your 5.3 release. If someone could step up and create the
OXT file, I'd be grateful for the assistance.

7) If you can find a way to make the HLC colours a part of 5.3, all the
better, but the colour values need to be protected against inadvertent or
intentional modification in the default installation. It's OK if users
store a local copy and modify it, but the original needs to be the same
across all platforms, because otherwise it would become useless.

freieFarbe e.V. wants LibreOffice to succeed in the creative space, which
also needs an office suite. We even promoted it successfully in Switzerland
as the better alternative to MS Office. So please let us find a way to make
LibreOffice the office tool of choice for publishing workflows.

Thanks,
Christoph

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. Dezember 2016 um 10:14 Uhr
> Von: "Heiko Tietze" <tietze.heiko@googlemail.com>
> An: "design@global.libreoffice.org" <design@global.libreoffice.org>
> Betreff: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: Aw: Re: Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette
>
> Hi all,
>
> I had a conversation with Christoph Schaefer about the palette thing in
the last days. He is not happy with what happened and in particular how the
communication was going. I'm translating his last email excluding the
exaggerated parts just for information and not to start a lengthy
discussion. While in my opinion we improved the color palette handling, the
discussion was indeed not really welcoming. That's my responsibility as the
initial discussion could have been done out of the bug tracker, for
instance. But after all I believe that transparency is paramount for open
source. Nevertheless we all should remind to find positive wording when
talking to contributors.
> Christoph: "If I get you right it's now up to me to create the extension.
But that makes it necessary to become familiar with it, especially since
palette handling was changed for 5.3. I have no time currently because new
Scribus releases are planned. Furthermore I have two book projects on my
hands. I canceled a publication in the Swiss 'Publisher' regarding the
exemplary handling of color palettes in LibreOffice compared to MS Office
since you scrapped it all. Waiting now for the 5.3 release...
> The Free Color e.V aimed to give LibreOffice a treat as the HLC palette
fits perfectly into the cross media workflow, which is a perfect argument
pro LibO. Even when it's the goal of fC to unleash color from proprietary
restrictions.
> Tor Lillqvist's approach was pragmatic and makes sense from my POV. I
would have never expected that it results in such a laborious and
time-consuming procedure."
> And in a follow-up email:
>
> "I still believe that LibO is the best office suite, especially for the
publishing.
> What bothers me, as a pragmatist, are the formalism and harping on about
principles, also from the usability experts."
> Guess his point is clear now.
>
> Cheers,
> Heiko
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Aw: Re:  Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette
> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 09:16:56 +0100
> From: "Christoph Schäfer" <christoph-schaefer@gmx.de>
> To: Heiko Tietze <tietze.heiko@googlemail.com>
>
> > Mit der Extension sollte jetzt aber alles deinen Wünschen entsprechen.
Oder?
> Wenn ich Dich richtig verstanden habe, soll ich die Extension selbst
produzieren. Dazu muß ich mich erst einarbeiten, zumal Du ja mitgeteilt
hast, daß sich in 5.3 die Behandlung von Paletten grundlegend geändert hat.
Ich habe aber momentan keine Zeit dafür, denn Scribus 1.4.7 und 1.5.3
stehen vor der Veröffentlichung. Darüber hinaus habe ich noch zwei
Buchprojekte am Hals, von denen eines noch vor Weihnachten fertig werden
muß. Einen Artikel im Schweizer "Publisher" zum vorbildlichen Umgang von
LibreOffice mit Farbpaletten im Vergleich zu MS Office habe ich absagen
müssen, weil Ihr anscheinend alles über Bord geworfen habt. Ich warte also
bis zur Veröffentlichung von 5.3 ab, wie das aussieht...
> Der Verein freieFarbe e.V. war eigentlich der Absicht, dem
LibreOffice-Projekt etwas Gutes tun wollen, weil es sich mit der
HLC-Palette im Gegensatz zu MS Office perfekt in einen Cross-Media-Workflow
einpassen läßt, was eigentlich eines der besten Werbeargumente for LO ist.
Auch ist es ein Ziel des Vereins, Farbe von ihren proprietären Fesseln zu
befreien.
> ...
>
> Tor Lillqvists Ansatz war pragmatisch und aus meiner Sicht sinnvoll, und
ich hätte nicht gedacht, daß aus unserem Angebot eine derart umständliche
und (für mich) zeitaufwendige Prozedur werden würde.
> Schönen Sonntag
> Christoph
>
> ...
> Ich glaube LibreOffice ist das beste Office-Paket, gerade auch fürs
Publishing.
> Was mich als Pragmatiker jedoch stört, sind Formalismus und
Prinzipenreiterei, auch von seiten der Usability-Experten.
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