Re: [libreoffice-design] Welcome graphics for the Startcenter in 4.2

Hi Michel,

2013/12/13 Michel Renon <michel.renon@free.fr>

> Hi,
>
> Le 06/12/2013 19:39, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>
> > Hello Michel,
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > Indeed. I find you quite shy in fact, and I'm serious. To me it does
> > not look like you were ignored, rather that no one knows about it.
> > Which is a problem since the start.
>
>
> I wouldn't say I'm shy, I'm just polite and I don't want to waste time and
> energy in endless discussion (mail or chat). And I understood that in this
> mailing list, you have to insist or even be aggressive to explain/force
> your UX ideas while I expected professional skills and democracy, at least
> meritocracy (I really miss Christoph Noack).
>
>
>
>
> >  [...]
> > >
> >
> > What would be better is that if your proposals were communicated. I've
> > never seen your name, never read any of your mails (except this thread)
> > before.
>
> False !
> I wrote articles in my blog about LibreOffice design process in
> march/april 2013 and on 11/04/2013 sent an email :
> To: design@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.
> freedesktop.org
> Cc: charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org, italo.vignoli@gmail.com
>
> So, you had at least one (important !) email from me.
>
> And I had only 2 answers :
> - one from Emir Yāsin SARI
> - the other from Michael Meeks :
>     (short version with my words)
>     - "we don't want to take care of your advises"
>     - "TDF is very happy with the current design team"
>
> and also few comments directly in the blog, but nobody from the TDF.
> So, when someone as Michael Meeks closes the door to my suggestions, what
> can I expect ? I would be foolish to insist.
>
>
> So I can return your argument :
> why only 2 person wrote answers to my articles in this ml ?
> why didn't you realized at that time that I have some expertise in UX
> design ?
> why nothing has changed in the design team workflow ? and in the way devs
> and designers work together ?
>
>
> Ans same question for my suggestion to postpone the startcenter : you ask
> my reasons to do so, but I explained it in my mail, just read it !
>
>
>
>  I don't read everything on the design list, but  I believe that
> > if you have not engaged with the design team first, nothing will happen.
>
>
> Just FYI, I started with project OOo Renaissance ! (May 2009)
> (https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance/Design_Proposals_for_%E2%80%
> 9CAccessing_Functionality%E2%80%9D)
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Michel_Renon
>
> My complete proposal as a pdf file (37 pages, 630 Ko)
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/w/images/2/26/Proposal_impress_ui_renon3.pdf
> (it was far from being perfect because I created it in few nights, while
> working for a diploma ; but still interesting ideas)
>
> BTW, you can see that there was already the "dribbblization" problem :
> only proposals made with screenshots had strong reviews.
>
>
> and I'm listed in the initial members of LO design team (but this page has
> been archived) :
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Team
>
> BTW, Mirek, there is no information about you.
> What is your *real* experience in software design ?
> Have you ever produced a professional software ?

No. I'm simply a volunteer here, nothing else. :)
As I said before, I was never appointed as a UX lead, and you're welcome to
partake in all the activities I partake in. You can act as the "UX lead",
if you'd like. :)

> For my emails, just look at archive of mailing list and chat logs : I
> worked for color picker, template manager.
> From my email client stats, I wrote 77 mails in design list and 52 in
> ux-advise.
> I agree, I didn't communicated on a regular basis : I'm just a volunteer
> and also have a daily job. But when I realized that current design team
> lacks basic UX skills (while working on color picker), I lost most of my
> motivation and felt it was useless to make proposals.
>
>
>
> And the last emails in this mailing list really broke the last bits of
> motivation :
> - saying officially that design is and will ever be a second class citizen

It all depends on the people. If you have the skills to make design a first
class citizen here, go for it. Don't ask for my approval -- you don't need
it.


> - saying officially that TDF will never listen to users

That's not exactly true. What was said is that user comments won't be the
primary driving force behind development, to avoid feature creep.


> - saying officially that nothing will change (no roadmap, no mid/long term
> vision, only "bazaar" short term changes) beacuse LO is, as Charles said, a
> libertarian project

You can propose a roadmap or a vision. If people like it, they'll follow it.


> - design team has no plans to enhance the design process

Come to the IRC chat on Saturday -- we can talk about the design process
then.
However, it seemed to me from your blog posts that you were asking for a
paid group of professional UX designers working outside of the community,
which I don't really think has a chance of happening anytime soon.

> So I have nothing more to do for LibreOffice.
> So this is my last message before unsubscribe.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

> Michel

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