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Hi Astron;

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Stefan Knorr <> wrote:
Hi Keith,

Furthermore, maybe WxWidgets might make sense to one day (slowly)
LibreOffice's internal toolkit. VCL is very rich, but in an ideal

So first of all, VCL is sadly not too rich – everywhere you see anything
more fancy than a button, tab or tick box it is some sort of custom
widget. Also, it lacks some things that continue to grow in importance
as we move towards generally smoother computing experiences – an
animation framework and better platform integration for instance.

Next: I guess the long-term plan is to move LibreOffice to(wards) GTK+,
I don't really know for sure though. But the adoption of Glade files for
our UI seems to be an indicator. (Of course, I am sure it's possible to
write a parser for the Glade format that works with WxWidgets, as it was
possible to write a parser for VCL.)
Anyway, maybe Samuel is indeed right about PyGobject being the better

The use of Glade is not necessarily significant as it is just a design
time IDE / format.

(From my end-user-only experience, GTK+ seems to be the better-
developed, more mainstream toolkit, too. But I may be using the wrong

I think the question is how well GTK+ works on Windows / Mac. Also,
Ohloh shows Gnome losing developers: so
there are risks to depending too much on them ;-)

The big question for here is: what is the best design as a starting
point? If no one has any better bitmaps, it seems likely it will start
based on Paulo Jose's work, but he isn't a part of the LibreOffice
design team.

So, Paulo José used to be part of the design team but he hasn't been
here in the past two years. Thus, you would be very lucky to get him to
provide any feedback at all – you can always try though.

A hacker could start with his work if there is no better
There needs to be cooperation on this between the hackers and the designers.

Also note that what Paulo has provided is basically a _single_ mockup of
a single component, so I somewhat doubt that it is straightforward to

I think starting with Writer is a good way to go. Once people "like"
the UI, then it can be extended to the other apps.

[1] Just to make it clear, this "our" is not necessarily meant to
   represent everyone on this list. We haven't really tried finding a
   consensus, because working on toolbars used to be mostly a time-
   waster project, I guess.

I think another part of the issue is there is a consensus in
LibreOffice that radical UIs are very difficult, which is true in C++
/ VCL. So there isn't much interest in working on something which will
"never" get implemented. However in Python, much faster prototyping is
possible, and input can be quickly put to use.



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