Re: [libreoffice-design] New Design and experience

While the sidebar is definitely a better use of screen space for
writer, it would be interesting to see how it plays with Calc where
horizontal screen real estate is arguably more valuable than vertical
(or at least as valuable). Microsoft actually considered putting the
ribbon on the sidebar but decided against citing column space in excel
as one of the reasons. I picked up a link to this video from an
earlier email and all parts of it are a really good insight into their
design process and should be part of the mandatory viewing list for
us! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9kD693ie4

On 10 June 2011 17:35, Cyril Arnaud <cyril.arnaud@gmail.com> wrote:
> I personnaly am using a lit my 10" on my netbook. Even with that a side
> toolbar is far better
>
> -- Cyril Arnaud
> On Jun 9, 2011 10:03 PM, "planas" <jslozier@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 01:28 +0100, Patrick Scott wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I'd imagine the correct drawers would
> animate
> > > and pop open if you suddenly moved the cursor from say normal text to a
> list
> > > or table for example. Also, it's a good point that many users may still
> be
> > > on 4:3 monitors. In anyone's opinion, would a sidebar such as the one in
> > > this mockup be too large for those using a 4:3 monitor? It could be cut
> back
> > > as a compromise..
> > >
> > > Mockup Link (again, this is just a layout concept, it still needs
> > > polishing): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:<
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeMockup.png>
> > > LibreOfficeMockup.png<
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeMockup.png>
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > > On 9 June 2011 07:59, Christopher Stark <christopherstark@gmx.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > it looks quite nice.
> > > >
> > > > Am 08.06.2011 18:22, schrieb Patrick Scott:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Today I put together a mockup for a possible Layout I think
> LibreOffice
> > > > > could use. Since it's just a layout, it's quite rough, lacks polish
> and
> > > > is
> > > > > very simple [it's also my first ever mockup]. The design is inspired
> by
> > > > the
> > > > > concepts behind Ubuntu's unity. It's all about maximising vertical
> screen
> > > > > space while using a sidebar to take advantage of the abundance of
> > > > horizontal
> > > > > screen space we have on the standard widescreen resolutions of today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a summary of the proposed changes:
> > > > >
> > > > > -Unlike the MS Ribbon, the context menu has been left as is but
> should be
> > > > > hidden as default on Windows and some Linux distros (should be
> recallable
> > > > > using Alt key, through preferences, or right-click of toolbar)
> > > >
> > > > Good thing that it's hidden by default.
> > > > I would suggest that the right functions appear automatically when the
> > > > user clicks on a graphic, into a Table etc.
> > > > If the right tools don't appear automatically, this drawers-toolbar
> > > > would be a disadvantage in comparison the the solution which exists now
> > > > in LO because one has to click on the right drawers in the left column
> > > > all the time.
> > > >
> > > > > - On Operating Systems where the context menu is integrated into the
> top
> > > > > panel (Mac OS and Ubuntu), the menu should remain present as is since
> > > > there
> > > > > is no additional screen real estate to be gained from hiding it
> > > > >
> > > > > -The bottom panel has also been removed but its vital components now
> > > > exist
> > > > > in the lower part of the new sidebar (I call it the info panel! Bare
> in
> > > > mind
> > > > > that it's just a concept so it looks pretty rough and needs cleaning
> up)
> > > > > -The remaining top panel should be reserved for vital 'File'
> operations
> > > > and
> > > > > other application level options such as access to help and a 'Tools'
> > > > > dropdown (similar to the 'Wrench' icon in Google's Chromium/Chrome
> > > > > browser).
> > > > >
> > > > > -The Drawers in the sidebar 'Toolbox' [which I borrowed from a
> screenshot
> > > > of
> > > > > LO Impress] should act as an alternative to Microsoft's ribbon.
> Features
> > > > > from the context menu should be graphically represented here and
> > > > categorized
> > > > > along with the usual text editing/spreadsheet/presentation features
> found
> > > > in
> > > > > the original toolbars
> > > > > Here is a link to the mockup:
> > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeMockup.png
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeMockup.png>I
> think
> > > > that
> > > > > with some polish and styling there would be quite a few benefits to
> this
> > > > > approach.
> > > > >
> > > > > - It would modernise the overall look of libreoffice, differentiating
> us
> > > > > from the dated OO and MS Office 1997 - 2003 look and feel.
> > > > > - The 'drawers' are not a clone of the MS Ribbon but it is consistent
> > > > with
> > > > > it, leaving MS converts with an easier job adopting to LO (rather
> than
> > > > > sending them back in time to the toolbar interface)
> > > > > - Users will be able to see more of their documents. At 1440 x 900,
> the
> > > > > sidebar takes up 240 px of abundant horizontal space while freeing up
> > > > over
> > > > > 100 px of precious vertical space. This is particularly beneficial in
> > > > Writer
> > > > > where documents can easily scroll more than 2 metres.
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget, that many - especially more professional - users still
> > > > have 4:3 monitors and will keep this up in the future (I never
> > > > understood this stupid wide screen hype)
> > > >
> > > > > - As you can see from the mockup, there is buckets of space left over
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > sidebar drawers which can be filled with anything that takes our
> imagine
> > > > > such as extra large widgets, style shortcuts similar to MS Office etc
> (I
> > > > > simply dumped the text formatting icons in here, since this is just a
> > > > > layout)...
> > > > >
> > > > > Please everyone, let me know what your thoughts are! I know people
> have
> > > > been
> > > > > discussing docks and docklet's etc and I'm not disregarding those
> > > > > suggestions. I'm simply proposing a layout to which features like
> those
> > > > as
> > > > > well as others like tabbed documents could be added.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Patrick
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8 June 2011 13:05, Phil Howard <imagin8or@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Christopher
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > I can imagine a kind of mixture of toolbars/docks/ribbons now. A
> > > > > > toolbar that is resized larger becomes a ribbon, which can be
> dragged
> > > > > > over to a side to become a dock. One dock (the top one?) fills with
> > > > > > frequently used icons, and the user can drag things onto that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like Christian's idea of being able to open a drawer further for
> the
> > > > > > complete set of actions - since these are the rarely used items,
> they
> > > > > > need to be in consistent positions. That way the 'ajar' (shallow
> open)
> > > > > > view can change and show frequently used items, but the fully open
> > > > > > drawer is always consistent.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do think that a large part of improving UIs is getting rid of
> > > > > > irrelevant things. If nothing is selected, you need to be able to
> > > > > > switch input modes (bold/italics or draw line/shape) or views, or to
> > > > > > insert new objects, but not to edit object properties (delete
> column).
> > > > > > The converse is true if you have selected something. I think MS were
> > > > > > driving at that with the Ribbon - apart from a different view of the
> > > > > > menus, the Ribbon's difference from the past is showing
> > > > > > context-dependent menus when objects are selected.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One concept I'm very keen on which helps reduce UI glut is
> localising
> > > > > > controls. Office 2007 introduced local context edit panels - if you
> > > > > > right click on some text, as well as the context menu, a panel
> appears
> > > > > > with B, U, I etc. Another instance of local controls is 37signals'
> > > > > > tools where hovering over a list item reveals handles to
> drag-reorder,
> > > > > > delete etc, which disappear when you mouseout. The GIMP and old Unix
> > > > > > window managers had everything (inc File, Edit etc) on a right-click
> > > > > > menu, even when the actions were not context-dependent, which was
> > > > > > confusing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess I'm saying less is better. So limit what's visible to what's
> > > > > > useable, and localise controls to the object. That leaves just
> > > > > > context-independent tools and mode switches in a dock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tried to mock up a toolbar/ribbon/menu but it turned into a bit of
> a
> > > > > > nesting blob that wouldn't work on small screens. I might try again
> > > > > > with less stuff...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil H
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:37 AM, Phil Jackson <sapient@clear.net.nz>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Sonic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's fine! - so long as it is easy enough to view. Just let us
> know
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > it is ready.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > cheers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil Jackson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 6/8/2011 11:26 AM, Sonic Spuds wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Phil Jackson<sapient@clear.net.nz>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi Christian
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you do a mock-up of this and give us a link to see what this
> > > > might
> > > > > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > like?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I use something as simple as Paint and then use cut and paste to
> move
> > > > > > > > > blocks around to get a final design. Quick and easy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phil Jackson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 6/7/2011 10:07 AM, Christian Vielma wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My name is Christian Vielma, i'm a Computer Engineer from
> Venezuela
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > i'm
> > > > > > > > > > interested in improving LibreOffice.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think Fernando's idea could be great, but i would like to see
> > > > images
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > how could it be in order to understand better.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I had an idea of using things like "drawers". Those are similar
> to
> > > > > > tabs
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > MS Office, but you could "open" as many drawers as you want and
> have
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > options in the windows or maintain opened only the drawers that
> you
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > most.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That could be a good mix with the dock that Fernando commented,
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > could have a dock with the options you use most and "open
> drawers"
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > > for functions that you would like to drag to the dock.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > LibreOffice already use things like my idea of drawers, for
> example
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > Impress when you have a side with the presentation design. But i
> > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > to extend it to be drawers instead of menues.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Scott Pledger<
> > > > > > scottpledger2005@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hey Fernando,
> > > > > > > > > > > Just so you know, the listserv removes images and attachments
> > > > > > > > > > > automatically
> > > > > > > > > > > so you'll have to include a link to the photo. From what I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > reading/imagining, I think this might be a good idea, so let's
> not
> > > > > > > > > > > forget
> > > > > > > > > > > about it as we continue forward!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -Scott
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 20:13, Fernando Andrade
> > > > > > > > > > > <fernandofreamunde@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > > my name is Fernando Andrade, and i have an idea for the
> graphical
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > interface
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > of Libre Office.
> > > > > > > > > > > > It is a little bit based on Mac OS X and Ubuntu, minimalistic
> > > > > > > > > > > > and functional but a lot different of the actual LO interface.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft
> > > > > > > > > > > > made a step in the right direction in 2007 when they
> introduced in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > market the new interface, although many people didn't like it
> > > > > > nowadays
> > > > > > > > > > > > people cant use other interface, because the MS Office
> interface
> > > > > > > > > > > > have eye-candy and is useful and productive.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Now it is time to LO do the changes that will make the
> difference,
> > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > picked
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > the concept of a Dock, introduced by Steve Jobs on NextStep,
> and
> > > > > > > > > > > > aplied
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > to the toolbars. Instead of ugly toolbars or the tabs thing of
> MS
> > > > > > > > > > > > Office,
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > dock would work nice. But how do i apply a fancy dock like
> docky
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > toolbars, it just don't make sense. Well its just the dock
> > > > concept,
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > thing i call docklet.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It works like a dock in the way that we can drag and drop
> icons to
> > > > > > > > > > > > add functionalities that we need, or drag and drop to remove
> the
> > > > > > ones
> > > > > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > > > > don't need. when clicked a drop down menu appears with the
> info
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > options that we have.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As an example the character related info(Bolted, Italic,
> > > > Underlined,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > font,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > size, color, highlight, etc..) in only a small and beutiful
> menu,
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > a beautiful icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > [image: rffff.bmp]
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the picture you can see what i mean, its just the concept
> of
> > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > new.
> > > > > > > > > > > > the menu can be on a global menu like he ones on MacOS or
> Ubuntu,
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > > > > it could show on top of the docklet. If you like this concept
> > > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > > > > replay
> > > > > > > > > > > > to me, i have more idieas and you would need the full concept,
> > > > this
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > a raw draw made directly from my brain to the file via ms
> paint...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your time;
> > > > > > > > > > > > Open regards;
> > > > > > > > > > > > Fernando Andrade
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
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> > > > > > > > > Phil,
> > > > > > > > The best way to handel a UI mockup is to work in Inkscape or
> another
> > > > > > fully
> > > > > > > > compliant SVG editor. This allows you or others to make quick
> tweaks
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > fixes to the design, and has the benefit of being basically the
> same
> > > > way
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > the final UI will be built.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Sonic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
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> >
> > I have a large 4x3 monitor and would prefer a side menu personally. The
> > real question is how many still use smallish monitors about 12"/355mm
> > versus a 17"/480mm or larger monitor.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jslozier@gmail.com
> >
> > --
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