Re: [libreoffice-design] Questions about "style" name

2011/4/29 Michel RENON <michel.renon@free.fr>:
> Le 26/04/11 22:04, Christoph Noack a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > We discussed this issue many times at OOo, and I came to the following
> > (personal) conclusion; we need ...
> >       * a more sensible selection of styles (e.g. attach the list styles
> >         to the paragraph styles intended for list use)
> >       * an improved Stylist that makes less use of double-clicks and and
> >         context menus (a bit different to what Rafael proposed) -->
> >         single click confirmation
> >       * a real preview of each Style in the Stylist
> >       * a real preview for the Styles drop-down in the toolbar
> >       * a better connection between the Style drop-down, the Stylist
> >         on/off icon to make the idea of styles more clear
> >       * a more intelligent ordering of styles (not too smart, but smart
> >         enough to present the styles used in the document along with not
> >         used ones)
> >
> > Of course, there are other ways of improving the use of Styles ... but
> > this needs a whiteboard :-)
> >
> >
> > Ricardo, Michel, all - what do you think? Something we might work out
> > for EasyHacks?
>
> Hmmm... Styles are not so easy... (IMHO)
> So it would be for "NotSoEasyHack" ;-)
>
> That's why I ask you if it's possible to create a pre-whiteboard :
> before working on new UI for styles, can we explain/analyse very precisely
> how styles work in LibreOffice 3.4 ?
> For example, I have to tell you that I don't understand in Writer :
> - what are the relations between "numbering styles" and "outlines"

In a nutshell, "numbering styles" are called from paragraph styles
when you need to create a list, while "outline numbering" is used for,
well, the outline of your document and it is applied to headings.
Both seems similar but they are quite different, at least
conceptually. And yes, this create a lot of confusion among new (and
not so new) users...

> - how the dialog "Bullets and numbering" really works, and what is possible

Too long for an email... in fact, there is one chapter of my book on
Writer (Spanish only, sorry) only devoted to how numbered lists are
aligned...

> - what is the relation of the dialog "Outline and numbering"[1] with
> similar properties of paragraph ?

They are, at the same time, the same and the opposite thing :) Let me
explain it a bit more.
The Tools → Outline numbering dialogue is the original menu for
controlling the outline of your document, giving a "level" to
different headings and also allowing the numbering of
chapters/sections, for example, and it is still recommended to start
the outline of your document from there.
On earlier OOo versions the "Outline and numbering" tab for paragraph
styles did not exist: it was only the "Numbering" tab and there there
was a menu to select a numbering style to associate with that
paragraph style in order to build lists, for example.
I think it was on 3.2 that the "Numbering tab" evolved to the "Outline
and numbering" tab, adding the possibility to select the outline level
for that paragraph style: this way Writer gained the really nice
possibility to have several paragraph styles for the *same* outline
level, something that was impossible before.
The bad here it is that you cannot associate an outline numbering to
these "extra" styles the same way you can do for the "base" styles
from Tools → Outline numbering, so if you need to have numbers also
for these styles you need to associate to them numbering styles... and
then the confusion for a new user reaches its greatest moment...
The really important point is that you cannot apply at the same time a
numbering from Tools → Outline numbering and by selecting a numbering
style on the "Outline and numbering" tab: both methods are
incompatible.
So as I already said on another thread, we have a powerful, solid but
obscure system for numbering. Once you understand how it works, it's
just great, but learning how it works... not an easy task.

Cheers
Ricardo

> Michel
>
>
>
> [1] As soon as I discorvered it, I found it very usefull to perform quickly
> the global numbering of a document.

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