Hi Christoph, Design!
I'll respond to Christoph's Email below, but generally, lack of time has
prevented work on the motif until now, quite understandable.
While I have some time free I will be using it to "lead the charge" on
the Design of a motif in 1 week.
*That will start tomorrow (Monday 21st February).* I just wanted to give
everyone a heads-up if they want to contribute.
Over the next 2 days we will discuss this matter here on this thread and
I will collate opinions on a wiki page.
Thank you Paulo, Rob, Tobias, Daniel and Rick for the support so far (by
the way guys, if you're interested in helping -even down the track- it'd
be great to see you on the Design team member list so we can start
getting to know each other; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Team).
But just to keep this discussion on track, the website mock-up was just
to emphasise the power of using 1 "corner". It wasn't really a Design
proposal for the website because that is not likely to be re-designed
for some time, we can plan for it of course, but working on redesign
right now is probably not a good idea.
Just wanted to draw focus back on the Motif;
- This will be undertaken in parallel with current "fund-raising" activities
- I will coordinate efforts, but will have no "decision-making" power
(read end of Email)
- We will be *done by the end of the week*
- EVERYONE is welcome to take part
On 2/20/2011 11:39 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
Let's be realistic: I don't think having a Design motif will "fix" this
problem. I think having a Design motif will "improve" this problem.
So what is the problem at the moment? The material that gets created
varies ... everyone in the community (you mentioned the CDs, banners,
leaflets) adds his own personal style / interpretation. It's hard to
take care of that, even for the "reference material" (a.k.a. what we can
create for the others) it's hard to keep track.
I will respectfully disagree on this point. If we have a Design motif,
we won't /have/ to "answer" the outstanding requests: we will empower
the community to do it themselves in a manner more consistent to the way
we would do it if we had the time. Having it as a basis will prevent
many community members thinking about creating a new Design from
scratch. I think this currently happens because there is a lack of
graphic resources for people to use if they have to make, for example, a
CD label. But with an easily available motif, we would be addressing
Why? Because - looking at the requests during the last weeks - many of
the requests are still unanswered. Many of us are busy - you, Ivan,
Bernhard to just name a few people who have a higher workload at the
moment (independent from LibreOffice). So even if we decide on a common
motif, it's likely that we are not able to incorporate it. Thus, the
community takes care ... and is less strict with regard to the visual
quality (in terms of design language).
And I don't think its a matter of restriction, its a matter of
facilitation. It will help US as much as the community...
Imagine we are asked to make business cards tomorrow, urgently;
- We will use the logo, that is the one fixed element
- The rest is up to the Designer really, they will probably use the
"borders" from the icons because that is consistent with all the Designs
so far, but realistically, what good are borders on a business card?
especially when bleed is so crucial.
- They might use the vignette, but radial gradients "band" on poor printers
- They might use a corner, that would be nice, but overall the card
would look bland and unexciting.
Having a Design motif (or a few variations of one style) would give us
immediately an additional resource to use when tackling every new Design
It will also mean that every task will look more consistent than if
there were no recurring motif.
Believe me, I understand the fund-raising is the priority, I will be
working on that in parallel.
I don't mean to take effort away from this exercise, I just think it is
unrealistic to think that we will get a "quiet moment" in the near
future that would be a more appropriate time to create a motif. And
every job that goes out in the mean time will just look like a document
icon, even though an icon is not the appropriate message in that context.
So my question is: If we can take care of such decisions within the next
days, I'm totally happy. But on the other hand, we really have to move
on and show that we are productive ... now. I'm surely not exaggerating
if I say "urgent" concerning the funding elements means we've "missed
some deadlines" already.
I see it slightly differently, I think it is futile working on the "open
items" when we don't have the right tools to work on them.
The logo is one tool, the colour palette is another, so is the clipped
corner. Between the three of them, you will have a pretty unexciting Design.
A motif is the tool that is missing, and it is the tool that will make
every job afterwards, easier to start.
So I still wonder whether an improved "motif" helps, or a more focused
work on the open items - even if it results in slight variation of the
outcome. (I know, it is an "chicken-and-egg problem" - if we know how to
do things, they can be achieved much faster, but we have to achieve some
That, would be me. I think it would be a very productive way to
contribute during this limited free time I've been granted.
My personal take would be to invest 50% of the available time to work
on / improve the open issues. The remaining time, my very personal
opinion, are spend wisely by working on the motif improvements. But, we
need somebody who can guide / manages this effort ... is this something
you might want to do (I totally trust you). Of course, all the others
should join here.
The community branding, in my opinion, will take NOTHING from this
motif, or logo, or anything else.
The community needs to start with a clean slate and do the branding
properly from the ground up.
Let there be no restrictions placed on them and, though it will take
courage on the part of LibO, trust that a re-imagined community branding
will create exactly the kind of excitement and feeling of participation
that every Open-Source project should endeavour to create.
By the way, maybe I missed that, how does this relate (to you) to the
community branding we've talked about earlier?
I'll leave it in your hands to decide when that is, but when it does
come around, I think we should expect radical change.
Is this going to confuse some users? yes probably, change does that. But
don't be blinded by tunnel-vision, we need to look to the future.
The future will be brightest when the identity of this software is in
the hands of the community.
Otherwise, I have to question, why are we contributing at all? If this
is an open-source initiative, the identity should be community-determined.
That sounds logical right?
This is one of the things I wanted to raise. The website team went
through many tribulations, but they did so in order to self-organise and
so that they had a clear sense of leadership. I admire that, even if
some of the members approached it with disrespect to the SC. I think
this team, without getting buried in politics, should elect a
leadership. It will be easier for us, I think most people already know
who to turn to for guidance?
Am Sonntag, den 20.02.2011, 01:40 +1100 schrieb Nik:
I would really appreciate if some of the Design leadership (Bernhard,
Christoph, Ivan) commented on whether they thought this plan is
feasible. Or updated it with times that are more appropriate.
Hehe, nice to read the term "leadership" - but I don't know whether this
is really appropriate. Maybe some experience when working in the
community and with devs. So without thinking about the given times, I've
shared my current perception of the situation.
Design-by-community doesn't work, everyone knows this. We need two
(preferably three, so that every decision has a majority-vote) people
who make the choices before our stuff goes out. Otherwise every major
task will take forever. They have to be experienced, knowledgeable and
trusted in Open-Source. They have to be people who've given the most of
anyone subscribed on this list, to this project.
To me it's obvious, in another Email to come shortly, I'll formally
propose that Bernhard DIPPOLD, Christoph NOACK and Ivan MISKOVIC be
elected as the Team leads.
That can wait until after the Fund-raising yes? But in the mean time,
now that I'm spear-heading the Motif creation task, I'm insisting that
the final Motif (and variations) will be judged by the 3 aforementioned
members on 25th February 2011. I'm not so much "asking" as "demanding"
*So the schedule looks like this:*
Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb.
Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb.
Decision: Friday 25th Feb.
Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb.
Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb.
I'll send another Email to the Design list tomorrow (whoops, today, for
me) clarifying details and asking for ideas.
The wheels, they are a turning.
P.S. WHY ARE MY EMAILS SO LONG!?! Research students are supposed to be
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to firstname.lastname@example.org
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
- Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF! (continued)
Impressum (Legal Info)
: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images
on this website are licensed under the
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License
This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is
licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2
"LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are
registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are
in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective
logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use
thereof is explained in our trademark policy