I'm about ready to send out to the entire Design list in a sec, but I
just felt compelled to respond to your questions first.
On 2/21/2011 7:02 PM, Mike Houben wrote:
Christoph was understandably concerned about resources/time for the
coordination of this task.
Hi Nik, Paulo, and all the other Followers :),
Am 20.02.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Nik:
*So the schedule looks like this:*
Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb.
Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb.
Decision: Friday 25th Feb.
Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb.
Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb.
Wy we have to rush on this? After some initial presentations on this List I had some Loooooong Discussions
(FOSDEM was for me nearly only "NOACK" ;-) He is nice, but don't wan't to start a discussion with
him, you end talking hours/days with him ;) - You should listen to him. He knows his stuff).
That resource is me. The time is mine.
Christoph is in support of this, as I have volunteered to do things
(document progress) that would usually fall to him (or Bernhard) and
occupy their time.
Christoph and I go a ways back, he knows I value his input, and I'm
pretty certain he reciprocates =)
I understand your concerns, not so long ago I asked for the slow and
steady approach on the website list.
I prefer careful consideration as everyone does. But make no mistake,
this is a SMALL task with a BIG benefit. It doesn't (nor SHOULD it)
require too much deliberating and discussion.
In this discussions I realized that we can't really do it like in the real world of Design and we
shouldn't do this. Why? In the last couple of days I tried to work for Libreoffice, but with my
studys I realized that a Day had not enough hours. I think other which are motivated to work with
us understand this.
It's nearly impossible for me to invest so many hours on Libreoffice in this short of Time. It's an
The reason for the fast pace;
- We are being realistic, this time-frame coincides with the
availability of members who can actively contribute to the task
- There IS an urgent need for this, more items will be designed everyday
until this becomes available, each different to the last
- There is a very serious semantic discrepancy between the graphic
symbols being used to "decorate" items and their meaning in that
context. This higher-level abstract visual element will remove our
current dependency on symbolism we have that is not versatile enough for
consistent cross-format use.
- Right now the groundswell around LibO is high, if we wait for the
"right time" to come for us to Design these things, we will find we are
already fixed into graphic elements that were adopted along the way due
to use/exposure, rather than careful Design alignment. The right time is
That is the traditional wisdom yes, but you cannot apply that to every
I need you to understand that this Time schedule is not "rushed", it is
focused, yes, fast-paced, certainly, but "rushed" suggests there is no
forethought/planning or time to reflect and improve.
That is not the case here. It is possible to work efficiently and that
is what I propose. Anyone who has worked in a Design firm is capable of
(and indeed, familiar with) rising to the challenge.
Never less, I love the motivations and directions in which we are heading.
My Schedule-idea is a lot slower, because we have something already in place so we can take time to
work on the new Design motifs. It's never a good idea to hurry in an FOSS-Community and to do it
right and for all possible aspects we should take a really slow but INTENSIV Schedule.
This will happen, it will be discussed on this list and ideas will be
posted on the wiki.
Everyone will have a chance to participate, it will be conducted openly
for all to see.
Everyone should present his Ideas/Wishes/Presentations on his personal Wikipage and we will present this
ideas like that to the others. If we have this, we can discuss and "vote" for the ideas here on the
Mailing list and make a Schedule on the Ideas we all have.
No one reports to me, I'm simply coordinating efforts.
I agree with the community voting where it is applicable, but we do not
VOTE for every item that is Designed, that is impractical, just the big
ones (eg. logos).
This is a meritocracy after all and the three "judges" assigned to this
task are meritorious, senior, trusted, unbiased and established members
on this list.
No one would doubt that, of that I'm more than certain. A decision made
by them will be respected by our team and can be made very quickly.
Mike, work with me here. No one will be prohibited from adding ideas,
EVERYONE will have a chance to contribute.
We cannot wait until it is convenient for everyone to participate,
because such a time will never come.
We will lose valuable contribution yes, but that is already happening.
No one asked for work on the icons to stop until they became available
because it isn't about the individual, it's about the result.
Right now we have the opportunity to capitalise on a short period of
focused collaboration with many active members available.
[I think the Feature Request on many sites works like this. You make a List with a little (or big)
Presentation of every idea and the User (outside and inside) can vote on the ideas.]
If we really wan't to rush this, I think that all of my ideas will not see the light the outside of
my head and will be presented to your eyes. This would also be dismotivating for some others here.
I think we should take that opportunity while it is presented here.
What you propose seems ideal, but in my experience, it is much easier to
propose this because it is the safe choice, but inevitably, too little
gets done: or design-by-community ruins it.
What I'm proposing is a confronting but realistic choice, which takes
into consideration many temporal "circumstances". It will deliver
results fast, if we are open to that.
The participants so far suggest they are open to this.
If we proceed and succeed, we might have a new confidence in this agile
method of working. And a Motif to boot.
If we fail, we will have laid the ground-work for future completion of
No harm done either way.
What you list here certainly needs attention, but you are a member of
the marketing team also, you should be aware that much collateral is
being purchased, many conferences being held, much advertising that
needs a professional touch. The above points focus on the website in a
narrow manner, the design of a Motif would benefit EVERYTHING that is
Designed for the LibO project, not just web. And right now, that is what
is asked of the Design team. To make Designs the whole community can
Places where I think we have to rethink:
- LibreOffice Product Placement Website
- Community Website
- Some specialised Marketing Pages...
- Other Graphical things (..pleas insert your places here..)
I hope that goes some way to addressing your concerns on the matter.
And I hope you'll find time to join in the discussion and ideation the
next few days.
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