Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!

Hi Mike,

I'm about ready to send out to the entire Design list in a sec, but I 
just felt compelled to respond to your questions first.

On 2/21/2011 7:02 PM, Mike Houben wrote:
> Hi Nik, Paulo, and all the other Followers :),
>
> Am 20.02.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Nik:
>
> > *So the schedule looks like this:*
> > Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb.
> > Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb.
> > Decision: Friday 25th Feb.
> > Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb.
> > Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb.
> Wy we have to rush on this? After some initial presentations on this List I had some Loooooong Discussions 
> (FOSDEM was for me nearly only "NOACK" ;-) He is nice, but don't wan't to start a discussion with 
> him, you end talking hours/days with him ;) - You should listen to him. He knows his stuff).
Christoph was understandably concerned about resources/time for the 
coordination of this task.
That resource is me. The time is mine.
Christoph is in support of this, as I have volunteered to do things 
(document progress) that would usually fall to him (or Bernhard) and 
occupy their time.
Christoph and I go a ways back, he knows I value his input, and I'm 
pretty certain he reciprocates =)
> In this discussions I realized that we can't really do it like in the real world of Design and we 
> shouldn't do this. Why? In the last couple of days I tried to work for Libreoffice, but with my 
> studys I realized that a Day had not enough hours. I think other which are motivated to work with 
> us understand this.
> It's nearly impossible for me to invest so many hours on Libreoffice in this short of Time. It's an 
> insane Schedule....
I understand your concerns, not so long ago I asked for the slow and 
steady approach on the website list.
I prefer careful consideration as everyone does. But make no mistake, 
this is a SMALL task with a BIG benefit. It doesn't (nor SHOULD it) 
require too much deliberating and discussion.

The reason for the fast pace;
- We are being realistic, this time-frame coincides with the 
availability of members who can actively contribute to the task
- There IS an urgent need for this, more items will be designed everyday 
until this becomes available, each different to the last
- There is a very serious semantic discrepancy between the graphic 
symbols being used to "decorate" items and their meaning in that 
context. This higher-level abstract visual element will remove our 
current dependency on symbolism we have that is not versatile enough for 
consistent cross-format use.
- Right now the groundswell around LibO is high, if we wait for the 
"right time" to come for us to Design these things, we will find we are 
already fixed into graphic elements that were adopted along the way due 
to use/exposure, rather than careful Design alignment. The right time is 
now.
> Never less, I love the motivations and directions in which we are heading.
>
> My Schedule-idea is a lot slower, because we have something already in place so we can take time to 
> work on the new Design motifs. It's never a good idea to hurry in an FOSS-Community and to do it 
> right and for all possible aspects we should take a really slow but INTENSIV Schedule.
That is the traditional wisdom yes, but you cannot apply that to every 
circumstance.
I need you to understand that this Time schedule is not "rushed", it is 
focused, yes, fast-paced, certainly, but "rushed" suggests there is no 
forethought/planning or time to reflect and improve.
That is not the case here. It is possible to work efficiently and that 
is what I propose. Anyone who has worked in a Design firm is capable of 
(and indeed, familiar with) rising to the challenge.

> Everyone should present his Ideas/Wishes/Presentations on his personal Wikipage and we will present this 
> ideas like that to the others. If we have this, we can discuss and "vote" for the ideas here on the 
> Mailing list and make a Schedule on the Ideas we all have.
This will happen, it will be discussed on this list and ideas will be 
posted on the wiki.
Everyone will have a chance to participate, it will be conducted openly 
for all to see.
No one reports to me, I'm simply coordinating efforts.

I agree with the community voting where it is applicable, but we do not 
VOTE for every item that is Designed, that is impractical, just the big 
ones (eg. logos).
This is a meritocracy after all and the three "judges" assigned to this 
task are meritorious, senior, trusted, unbiased and established members 
on this list.
No one would doubt that, of that I'm more than certain. A decision made 
by them will be respected by our team and can be made very quickly.

> [I think the Feature Request on many sites works like this. You make a List with a little (or big) 
> Presentation of every idea and the User (outside and inside) can vote on the ideas.]
>
> If we really wan't to rush this, I think that all of my ideas will not see the light the outside of 
> my head and will be presented to your eyes. This would also be dismotivating for some others here.
Mike, work with me here. No one will be prohibited from adding ideas, 
EVERYONE will have a chance to contribute.
We cannot wait until it is convenient for everyone to participate, 
because such a time will never come.
We will lose valuable contribution yes, but that is already happening. 
No one asked for work on the icons to stop until they became available 
because it isn't about the individual, it's about the result.
Right now we have the opportunity to capitalise on a short period of 
focused collaboration with many active members available.
I think we should take that opportunity while it is presented here.

What you propose seems ideal, but in my experience, it is much easier to 
propose this because it is the safe choice, but inevitably, too little 
gets done: or design-by-community ruins it.
What I'm proposing is a confronting but realistic choice, which takes 
into consideration many temporal "circumstances". It will deliver 
results fast, if we are open to that.
The participants so far suggest they are open to this.

If we proceed and succeed, we might have a new confidence in this agile 
method of working. And a Motif to boot.
If we fail, we will have laid the ground-work for future completion of 
this task.
No harm done either way.

> Places where I think we have to rethink:
>
> - LibreOffice Product Placement Website
> - Community Website
> - Some specialised Marketing Pages...
> - Other Graphical things (..pleas insert your places here..)
What you list here certainly needs attention, but you are a member of 
the marketing team also, you should be aware that much collateral is 
being purchased, many conferences being held, much advertising that 
needs a professional touch. The above points focus on the website in a 
narrow manner, the design of a Motif would benefit EVERYTHING that is 
Designed for the LibO project, not just web. And right now, that is what 
is asked of the Design team. To make Designs the whole community can 
use/appropriate.

I hope that goes some way to addressing your concerns on the matter.
And I hope you'll find time to join in the discussion and ideation the 
next few days.

-Nik



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+help@libreoffice.org
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***