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Hi Mike,

I'm about ready to send out to the entire Design list in a sec, but I just felt compelled to respond to your questions first.

On 2/21/2011 7:02 PM, Mike Houben wrote:
Hi Nik, Paulo, and all the other Followers :),

Am 20.02.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Nik:

*So the schedule looks like this:*
Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb.
Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb.
Decision: Friday 25th Feb.
Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb.
Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb.
Wy we have to rush on this? After some initial presentations on this List I had some Loooooong Discussions 
(FOSDEM was for me nearly only "NOACK" ;-) He is nice, but don't wan't to start a discussion with 
him, you end talking hours/days with him ;) - You should listen to him. He knows his stuff).
Christoph was understandably concerned about resources/time for the coordination of this task.
That resource is me. The time is mine.
Christoph is in support of this, as I have volunteered to do things (document progress) that would usually fall to him (or Bernhard) and occupy their time. Christoph and I go a ways back, he knows I value his input, and I'm pretty certain he reciprocates =)
In this discussions I realized that we can't really do it like in the real world of Design and we 
shouldn't do this. Why? In the last couple of days I tried to work for Libreoffice, but with my 
studys I realized that a Day had not enough hours. I think other which are motivated to work with 
us understand this.
It's nearly impossible for me to invest so many hours on Libreoffice in this short of Time. It's an 
insane Schedule....
I understand your concerns, not so long ago I asked for the slow and steady approach on the website list. I prefer careful consideration as everyone does. But make no mistake, this is a SMALL task with a BIG benefit. It doesn't (nor SHOULD it) require too much deliberating and discussion.

The reason for the fast pace;
- We are being realistic, this time-frame coincides with the availability of members who can actively contribute to the task - There IS an urgent need for this, more items will be designed everyday until this becomes available, each different to the last - There is a very serious semantic discrepancy between the graphic symbols being used to "decorate" items and their meaning in that context. This higher-level abstract visual element will remove our current dependency on symbolism we have that is not versatile enough for consistent cross-format use. - Right now the groundswell around LibO is high, if we wait for the "right time" to come for us to Design these things, we will find we are already fixed into graphic elements that were adopted along the way due to use/exposure, rather than careful Design alignment. The right time is now.
Never less, I love the motivations and directions in which we are heading.

My Schedule-idea is a lot slower, because we have something already in place so we can take time to 
work on the new Design motifs. It's never a good idea to hurry in an FOSS-Community and to do it 
right and for all possible aspects we should take a really slow but INTENSIV Schedule.

That is the traditional wisdom yes, but you cannot apply that to every circumstance. I need you to understand that this Time schedule is not "rushed", it is focused, yes, fast-paced, certainly, but "rushed" suggests there is no forethought/planning or time to reflect and improve. That is not the case here. It is possible to work efficiently and that is what I propose. Anyone who has worked in a Design firm is capable of (and indeed, familiar with) rising to the challenge.

Everyone should present his Ideas/Wishes/Presentations on his personal Wikipage and we will present this 
ideas like that to the others. If we have this, we can discuss and "vote" for the ideas here on the 
Mailing list and make a Schedule on the Ideas we all have.
This will happen, it will be discussed on this list and ideas will be posted on the wiki. Everyone will have a chance to participate, it will be conducted openly for all to see.
No one reports to me, I'm simply coordinating efforts.

I agree with the community voting where it is applicable, but we do not VOTE for every item that is Designed, that is impractical, just the big ones (eg. logos). This is a meritocracy after all and the three "judges" assigned to this task are meritorious, senior, trusted, unbiased and established members on this list. No one would doubt that, of that I'm more than certain. A decision made by them will be respected by our team and can be made very quickly.

[I think the Feature Request on many sites works like this. You make a List with a little (or big) 
Presentation of every idea and the User (outside and inside) can vote on the ideas.]

If we really wan't to rush this, I think that all of my ideas will not see the light the outside of 
my head and will be presented to your eyes. This would also be dismotivating for some others here.
Mike, work with me here. No one will be prohibited from adding ideas, EVERYONE will have a chance to contribute. We cannot wait until it is convenient for everyone to participate, because such a time will never come. We will lose valuable contribution yes, but that is already happening. No one asked for work on the icons to stop until they became available because it isn't about the individual, it's about the result. Right now we have the opportunity to capitalise on a short period of focused collaboration with many active members available.
I think we should take that opportunity while it is presented here.

What you propose seems ideal, but in my experience, it is much easier to propose this because it is the safe choice, but inevitably, too little gets done: or design-by-community ruins it. What I'm proposing is a confronting but realistic choice, which takes into consideration many temporal "circumstances". It will deliver results fast, if we are open to that.
The participants so far suggest they are open to this.

If we proceed and succeed, we might have a new confidence in this agile method of working. And a Motif to boot. If we fail, we will have laid the ground-work for future completion of this task.
No harm done either way.

Places where I think we have to rethink:

- LibreOffice Product Placement Website
- Community Website
- Some specialised Marketing Pages...
- Other Graphical things (..pleas insert your places here..)
What you list here certainly needs attention, but you are a member of the marketing team also, you should be aware that much collateral is being purchased, many conferences being held, much advertising that needs a professional touch. The above points focus on the website in a narrow manner, the design of a Motif would benefit EVERYTHING that is Designed for the LibO project, not just web. And right now, that is what is asked of the Design team. To make Designs the whole community can use/appropriate.

I hope that goes some way to addressing your concerns on the matter.
And I hope you'll find time to join in the discussion and ideation the next few days.


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