RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

Hello, again.
This time I removed Java 7 update 7 followed by LO 3.6.2.  I also ensured that my LO user data in 
the roaming folder was removed.
I then installed Java via the Ninite installer.
Ensured that Java Access Bridge was enabled via control panel (Ease of Access, use computer without 
a display.)
 Installed LO 3.6.2 checking the box for enabling a.t. support.
I am afraid I still have no access while in Writer with NVDA.
I do have JAWS 12 and JAWS 13 installed.  I do not believe these are JAVA-based packages.  I am 
willing to remove them but I need a bit of a break today. <grin>



David Goldfield
Computer Technology Instructor
919 Walnut Street
4th Floor
Philadelphia, PA  19107

215-627-0600 ext 3277
FAX:  215-922-0692

mailto:dgoldfie@asb.org 
http://www.asb.org


Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired population since 1874.

         
-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield [mailto:dgoldfie@asb.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:41 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

Hello, Stuart.
The last time I worked with Symphony I definitely noticed that accessibility was much better.  I 
continued to stick with LO because Symphony does not have a built-in function in the File menu to 
send a document as an email attachment and Writer handles this function quite nicely.  While 
Symphony has a plug-in to accomplish this task I found that installing plug-ins for Symphony via 
the keyboard was next to impossible.  I'm glad, however, that LO developers are at least discussing 
how to best handle these accessibility shortcomings.  I thank you for your explanations, patience 
and the time you are taking to explain as well as to verify these issues.
 


David Goldfield
Computer Technology Instructor
919 Walnut Street
4th Floor
Philadelphia, PA  19107

215-627-0600 ext 3277
FAX:  215-922-0692

mailto:dgoldfie@asb.org
http://www.asb.org


Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired population since 1874.

         
-----Original Message-----
From: V Stuart Foote [mailto:VStuart.Foote@utsa.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:25 AM
To: David Goldfield; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

David,
 
I spent yesterday working through some of the permutations.
 
I resolved a couple of my own questions.  First, that  Python based NVDA functions independent of 
the Java Runtime Environment - Java Access Bridge. 
 
NVDA does require the JRE and Java Access Bridge to properly control programs that are implemented 
with the Java Access Bridge API, unfortunately that includes LibreOffice. 
 
But NVDA will remain functional with the JRE & JAB removed. NVDA only needs to be momentarily shut 
down when uninstalling the JAB & JRE and can be restarted as the uninstall completes.
 
=-=-=
 
Another issue, per-user LibreOffice profile from past installation attempts or prior versions must 
be removed.  
 
Uninstallation of LibreOffice leaves the per-user configuration files intact. 
 
This is intentional from the LibreOffice developers perspective--but it adversely affects 
installation or re-installation of LibreOffice with accessibility tools and needs to be rebuilt 
cleanly.
 
The per-user configuration is located at:
 
C:\Users\<yourusername>\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice
 
Simply delete the LibreOffice folder and subfolders. And proceed with removal and reinstallation of 
the JRE, enabling the JAB, and lastly installing LibreOffice with AT enabled.
 
=-=-=
 
Finally, I am curious as to how incomplete the Flat Review LibreOffice JAB based Assistive 
Technology tools are compared to the Windows IAccessible2 based tools, or Linux AT-SPI based, or 
even the Apple Accessibility API based renderings.
 
Since IBM continues to develop and distribute the Lotus Symphony suite, current release is 3.0.1 
and is free to download and  use.
 
http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/ 
<http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/>  
 
I grabbed a set of Windows installers (32-bit), and the FixPack1 for 3.0.1 from
 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/ 
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/> 
 
In a side by side comparison using NVDA and the same .odt document -- the IAccessible2 based 
Symphony clearly accessed more of the MSAA-IAccessible roles than did the Java Access Bridge based 
LibreOffice.  Cursor navigation, and object based mode functioned--as did reporting of font 
changes, style and header levels and voicing of program annotations like spelling errors. Clearly 
under NVDA Symphony Document is more useable as an editor. Similar results in the Spreadsheet 
compared to Calc.
 
=-=-=
 
I'm going to press on and do the same comparison between a Linux Orca session of LibreOffice's  
AT-SPI based interface, and Symphony (in both Windows and Linux versions)--but suspect it will 
simply confirm there are serious shortcomings to the Java Access Bridge -- UNO a11y  role mappings 
in LibreOffice on the Windows side. 
 
I can't say if this has been the state since inception, or is a recent change but will have a 
little better feel of what roles are working in Linux  with ATK side versus in Windows with JAB and 
may then be able to rationally present the case of regression or needed enhancement to the 
developers. There is an open metabug on the Linux AT-SPI ATK AT-SPI2 side for Orca  , maybe we need 
something similar on the Windows JAB side.( https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_activity.cgi?id=36549 
)
 
=-=-=
 
In the interim, until the Java Access Bridge based Windows functions are corrected--or until 
LibreOffice moves fully to and UNO a11y role -  IAccessible2  role mapping under the IBM Symphony 
contribution--you may want to look at using the free IBM Symphony 3.0.1--of course that leaves you 
without Draw, Base or an Equation editor.
 
Stuart
 
p.s.  CC'd to the Dev list--looking to contact whomever has the best grasp of the JRE Java Access 
Bridge based Assistive Technologies used on the Windows side mappings of the UNO a11y  roles.  
Difficult to tell what is not working as intended, versus what has never been implemented, versus 
issues with the JRE and Java Access Bridge. What I know for sure is that other than the missing 
enhancements of IAccessible2, LibreOffice for Windows is not meeting its AT functional goals.

________________________________

From: David Goldfield [mailto:dgoldfie@asb.org]
Sent: Tue 10/9/2012 7:44 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE



Hello.
I uninstalled the components in the order in which you suggested.  Using another installed screen 
reader I reinstalled all software in the order suggested and ensured that the a.t. support checkbox 
was checked when installing Libreoffice 3.6.  I also enabled JAB via the control panel under 
accessibility settings but I still find that I have no access with LO 3.6 and NVDA 2012.2.1.
David


David Goldfield
Computer Technology Instructor
919 Walnut Street
4th Floor
Philadelphia, PA  19107

215-627-0600 ext 3277
FAX:  215-922-0692

mailto:dgoldfie@asb.org
http://www.asb.org <http://www.asb.org/> 


Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired population since 1874.

         
-----Original Message-----
From: V Stuart Foote [mailto:VStuart.Foote@utsa.edu]
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 9:05 PM
To: Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

Kevin,

Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we are asking you to jump 
through hoops.

But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start clean from a known state. In 
your latest attempt you've ended up non-functional.

To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice gets install LAST.

Remove in this order: 

  1.   LibreOffice
   2.  NVDA
   3.  Java Access Bridge
   4.  Java Runtime Environment

Install in this order

    1. Java Runtime Environment
    2. Java Access Bridge
    3. NVDA
    4. LibreOffice

But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is installed automatically and just 
needs to be enabled with a "jabswitch.exe /enable" command.   Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to 
use the JWin utility to install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2. 

In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE 1.7 greater than update 6. 
Rather, simply enable the built in Java Access Bridge and then install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.

Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of Installation Wizard configuration 
"Ready to Install the Program" there will be two check boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", 
and 2) "Support assistive technology tools"  Check that box and then select the Install button.

The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be checked to enable assistive 
technology in LibreOffice without navigating the Tools -> Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> 
Options Java menus. 

Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools" checked, NVDA will read the outside 
frame elements of LibreOffice-but will not be able to read or navigate text within the components.

Stuart


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