Re: RE: [libreoffice-website] Libreoffice.org website dev sitrep 2011-02-02 - [Was: Work on the "Why?" pages]

Narayan,


On 6:59 AM, Narayan Aras wrote:
> Hi Nik
> 1. The website project has no graphic designer on board-why?
By your logic, everyone else has time to be part of every other list. 
Their time is expendable, yours is precious right?
Tell me, how many lists are you a part of? Do you practice what you 
preach or are you just talking sh!+?
You seem to expect a lot of others and deliver very little yourself.
> 2. There is no planned wireframe/icons for home page, and other sets of pages- why?
There is no search functionality on the LibO site, why?
There is no option for users to log in using facebook connect and 
comment on features, why?
There is no website for us Australian LibO users wanting to exchange and 
rate wombat and koala templates, why?
There is no option on the CMS to allow users to upload pictures of their 
grandma's using Impress, why?

Oh my bad, I should probably work closely with this list regarding these 
matters rather than expect that you would read my mind, right?
And I should probably understand that you chaps are busy and my requests 
aren't the most urgent matters you deal with, yes?
Geez, that'd be nice of me!
> 2. We raced against launch date, missed it and still no graphic inputs-why?
>
> Don't you think someone from your team had to contribute?
I'm probably wasting my time repeating what others have already told you,
so, -snip-.
> Please do not search for any motives- We are terribly short of web designer(s).
We are not. We have a Design list full. You wouldn't know because you 
didn't really want to work with us.
You simply want to bring in someone you know from work and are fond of.
If you need to build a better relationship with your workmates, do it at 
work.
Have a beer, shoot some pool, indulge in a little bro-mance, whatever. 
LibO is not your social tool.
> The time is running out- The website is far from ready.
> And I happened to have access to an excellent source. There is nothing more to it.
Interesting, time is running out? who decided that? you? has the site 
gone offline? have the CSS styles dropped out? is there a meteor heading 
towards the LibO servers?
IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE INTERNETS ABOUT TO EVALUATE OUR WEBSITE TO DEEM 
IT WEB-WORTHY???
Your matter of urgency seems somewhat self-imposed.
I want the best possible website for LibO as soon as possible much more 
than you do, but I have a better understanding of what "possible" means 
and I recognise that our community of VOLUNTEERS is working flat-out on 
their respective tasks. I wouldn't be a big enough jerk to impose my 
priorities onto others, let alone onto other lists.  But you don't seem 
limited by these rational concerns.
> Regards,
> -Narayan
>                 
Ooooh this is going to be long, but you've wasted so much of everyone 
else's time, I don't feel obligated not to waste yours.

...


Of course I feel uncomfortable saying this on a list which is not where 
I make my primary contribution to this project, but multiple people have 
tried to reason with you, but you're not open to that. Let me put it 
simply...

I don't know whether you are genuinely interested in the well-being of 
this project, but you don't behave like such a person.
For three reasons;
1. You don't seem to value anyone's opinion but your own.
2. You don't seem to respect people in this community that the community 
respects.
3. You don't seem capable of negotiating or understanding that your one 
vote does not outweigh the vote of many others.

People have tried to steer you gently in the right direction, or 
encouraged you, but your blind faith in your opinion has become somewhat 
of a problem. I've been watching quietly for ages, imagine my irritation 
that I actually have to write this at all? OpenSource projects have a 
fundamental problem in that people who cause delays and argue more than 
they contribute *can't* be /told/ to leave, they have to realise it for 
themselves that they have become a burden. A /burden/, Narayan. You seem 
to be exploiting this loophole a great deal. While I, personally would 
love to see you leave for good, I'm sure others would suggest you take 
some time out and really contemplate whether you are really in this for 
the right reasons; and whether your input is actually benefiting others, 
rather than slowing them down.

If you DO decide to return after that time-out (that I suspect you don't 
think you need to take), when you come back, *DON'T insult the members 
of this community like you have done the last few days*. I'm sure you 
think you're making a mockery of some members of this project, but in 
truth, all I see is how much *you can't /cooperate/*, let alone 
*/collaborate/*. Frankly, you're making an ass of yourself while you 
post smiley faces and assume you're being clever. Members like Charles 
SCHULZ are founding members of this community, no matter what you say, 
they will retain the support and admiration of this community *long* 
after you're gone. How DARE you assume you even have the right to 
undermine them like you do? what have you done that is SO important that 
it demands we listen to YOUR arguments over his? Charles' 
responsibilities span the breadth of this entire project, on lists you 
haven't even VISITED, and you want him to read every word that YOU 
write? *amazing*. Wherever you get your confidence, they must be doing 
brisk business with clients the likes of you.

Then there's Italo VIGNOLI, another respected and established member of 
the SC that you've been arguing with ABOUT HIS TIME COMMITMENTS TO THIS 
PROJECT? I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it is to see someone 
new walk in and question someone who has been at this tirelessly for 
YEARS! I mean, FOR FU©KS SAKE?!? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!? You are 
talking to people who have dedicated their lives to this before you had 
even heard about it. I have never seen Italo lose his cool, he has 
always managed to gently persuade people by shining some of his 
hard-earned wisdom their way. But I suppose they were all logical and 
reasonable people and you're another matter entirely.

More recently, Bernhard DIPPOLD has been very courteous to you, but you 
don't listen to his calm suggestions, you just list your terms and 
conditions. As if you're someone to be reckoned with. Bernhard is 
basically the leader of the entire Visual Design team in this community, 
the team whose help you would shun, and if you were truly interested in 
any form of collaboration, it would be wise to *not* piss him off, 
because the man has considerable sway amongst us Designers. And when we 
look to design finalisation, we look to Bernhard and Christoph. Keep 
that in mind. Your Design friend *MUST* join this community if he wants 
to contribute. Yes,*I'm being perfectly clear*, no ifs or buts, no 
misinterpretation possible. Frankly, I demand it. I don't subscribe to 
countless mailing lists and iterate my designs with a community because 
I have lots of spare time, I do it because that is the proper procedure 
anyone follows to be part of this community. *No one is above it.*

You're probably thinking "why is this chap such a LibO groupie?". I 
don't expect you to understand, this COMMUNITY is built of people who 
have worked at this so hard and for so long that we have mutually earned 
each other's respect. It seems like the only community you're interested 
in building is a network of mirrors and cameras all pointed at you. Good 
luck with that! Even most of the new members seem to understand their 
place intuitively and seamlessly integrate. But YOU have a very high 
opinion of yourself. Unfortunately, I notice there isn't anyone in this 
community to speak up kindly of your contributions and efforts? What 
does that tell you? ... knowing you, probably not much.

Several people have responded to Bernhard's poll, not one amongst them 
agreed to your external Designer. But you still argue for this cause. 
*Against* the wisdom of the established members, *against* the wishes of 
the Design contributors, *against* the very team you allege to belong, 
*against* the greater good of this entire project. Despite all of these 
indications otherwise, somehow, in your head which is so far detached 
from the real world, you seem to come to the conclusion that you are 
still in the right. That people MUST see it your way because they must 
ALL somehow be wrong. Now, you're notorious for not actually answering 
the questions people ask of you in correspondence, like you un-skilfully 
evaded comment on my earlier hypothetical situation, but I'm just going 
to pose this one question to you and that's all you'll have to answer;

Everyone's opinion here is important and all ideas are worth discussing, 
but decisions are made, usually by people senior enough to make them 
(and yes that IS meritocratic because their seniority comes from 
contribution, not time), then we move on and tackle the next problem. 
You don't seem to accept decisions, you just argue. So, my question;

*WHAT IS IT, NARAYAN, THAT MAKES YOUR OPINION MORE IMPORTANT THAN 
EVERYONE ELSE'S WHO HAS SPOKEN SO FAR?*
I'm dying to know.

If you take just one thing away from this long Email, let it be this:
DON'T INSULT THE WORK ETHIC OR CONTRIBUTION OF THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT 
*apparently* TO BE A PART OF!
We respect each other, you have yet to identify a reason that respect 
should extend to you. Stop wasting time. Start taking No as an answer. 
It happens, deal with it.
If you don't like it, there isn't anyone begging you to stay. To the 
contrary, I can see Italo reaching for his shotgun as we speak. I hope 
it's sawn-off.


-Nik
If this sounds like a personal attack, I mustn't have been clear how 
detrimental I think you are to LibO. You're as useful as Haemorrhoids to 
a bike-rider.
I'm sure you're good at what you do. But you're NOT good at this, in 
fact, you're terrible. A community, of any kind, is simply not the place 
for you.

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