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We're not going to reach an agreement here. I don't like to have people trying to enter through a 
window when they've been told they can't enter at the door. 
You are entitling yourself "the website team". It's misleading and it has never been the case. Not 
everyone was for Drupal and you know it, in fact, Drupal was but one possible candidate. You come 
back again with your Drupal proposition and you want us to come back on our decision to appoint 
people. That's not going to happen. 

Let me make this clear: the SC at present cannot only be a conflict resolution body. It would be 
very diminishing anyway, if you read our bylaws. Right now it has to show leadership because 
everything has to be built. The SC built LibreOffice and is developing the Document Foundation. 
Which means there is more, much more than a website to it. All around you, all around us, we now 
have over a hundred (in fact hundreds of contributors) developing the software and being the 
community. What you're showing here is that you care more about Drupal than anything else and you 
care more about disrupting our work than contributing. We could be playing the blame game for days 
and months now. We've already been playing this for weeks. 

So now what I'm going to ask you is to choose between: contributing productively to the LibreOffice 
project and stop making demands, or leave this mailing list and the LibreOffice project. We all 
have better things to do than wasting our time. 

Thank you,

Sent with Sparrow
On mercredi 19 janvier 2011 at 05:19, Michael Wheatland wrote:

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:32 AM, charles.h.schulz
<> wrote:

I've read several comments about the SC shunning away from its responsibilities.
I think it would be fair to remember that the SC is a group of people (who are not perfect) who 
had the guts to break away from Oracle. They had the guts to leave a project they had been 
contributing to for years (sometimes more than ten) and to face difficulties, uncertainty, 
doubt, the hatred feelings of people they had been working with (some Oracle employees). The SC 
members got a vision and are working hard to achieve it.

IMO the problem has not been the SC shunning away from
responsibilities, on the contrary. The Website team has self
organised. The problem is the SC getting involved and over-ruling
consensus and negotiated decisions made in individual lists without
going back and reading the history. This is exaserbated with many of
the discussions that SHOULD be on the website list being on the
Discuss or SC-Discuss list. We need a united team for each
mini-project, not the SC going one way and the community going
another. Have the discussion ONCE in the right place: The Webste
mailing list!

To say that we shun away from our responsibilities is I think unfair. But we certainly made 
mistakes. One of them is that we felt a website team could organize itself and that the mailing 
lists in general could run smoothly. It was often the case that it worked (and it's working) 
but when it comes to the website, it's obviously not true. We should have understood that 
something was wrong when the Drupal fans continued to discuss, unabashed and unfazed by the 
results of the CMS platform contest that had *clearly* nominated Silverstripe and tagged Drupal 
as *an option in the future*. We should have shouted and taken clear actions when we saw this 
website was being sunken into unproductive messages about a solution we hadn't picked but that 
some people felt they were still entitled to pursue.

Florian's message on the CMS result was clear "Silverstripe as a
started with plans to migrate to Drupal". Florian as the website SC
rep was actively involved in many discussions about this development.
Once the people working on the Drupal site realised that the
Silverstripe site was under resourced despite the statement that
Christian made to the SC, we acted:

I started a mailing list thread to regroup and start to coordinate the
Silverstripe development after David had finished the initial design:

The response to this from David and other SC members was insulting and
belittling for the existing website team as it insinuated that we were
not competent in managing our own part of the project:

The most recent decision by the SC, appointing leaders, without even a
mention about it to the website mailing list reinforces this disregard
for the great members who already exist in this team.
In choosing the four 'Leaders' there was not a vote or even mention of
this within the website mailing list, hence there has been NO
community consultation, collaboration or self governance. As far as I
can see, the SC is not being used as it should be, a conflict
resolution tool, but rather as a manager dictating to their employees
who is in charge and what work they must do, even without themselves
being elected.

I am going therefore to apologize to several people and for several things (see below). One 
thing I'm not going to apologize for, however, is to have a written and recorded decision that 
the SC chose one solution that some people haven't read about or listened to. Our message was 
clear ever since the beginning: Silverstripe, and perhaps, later, Drupal. We cannot be blamed 
for the mistakes of other people.

No. It wasn't, Quite the opposite.
But, again, those working on the Drupal development were about to
start work on Silverstripe, but we were shunned by David and now the

To all; I would like us to come back into a productive mood. We're here to contribute to our 
present website, not to something else someone feels should be better. There's plenty of ideas 
out there, plenty of people who would rather have us do something completely different: but at 
the end of the day, we work on one project, LibreOffice and comments, "do this" & "you should 
do that" are not really welcome here.

I agree. I think the best way to get back to a productive mood is for
the SC to take a step back and stop making decisions that are contrary
to the self-organised website team. We have proven we can do it with
the Drupal development, it was very well organised, now we know that
there was NOBODY apart from Christian that was ready to work on
Silverstripe, with the exception of David at the last minute, we were
in the progress of restructuring the self organised team and the SC
comes and overrules yet another decision without being involved or
even reading the mailing list.

Expect a more hands-on approach of this mailing list. We're grateful for contributions, but 
we're not here to stand the desires of people who cannot understand that Free Software does not 
equal chaos and always following their decisions. The Steering Committee (and soon the Board of 
Directors) is here to take decisions as well as other entities (see our bylaws). We're not 
dictatorial, because we owe you transparency and that our bylaws clearly show no one can have 
absolute or even too much powers. But what we want to set is an atmosphere in mailing lists 
that are focused on contributions and not on fruitless discussions.

I don't really want a more "hands-on" approach. I would much prefer an
open "Hands off" approach where decisions made inside mailing lists
are respected and implemented.
We moved to LibreOffice expecting 'community governance', not another
team of non-elected members who it seems occasionally actively block
ideas and developments they do not agree with.

In the end, all of our actions, individually, collectively, can only be measured on one 
criteria: contribution. This is the way we move forward, this is why we are "Libre".

Personally, I don't feel very "Libre" at the moment.

I believe that the ONLY way forward is to withdraw the latest decision
to appoint leaders and again allow us to self organise as we did
before, despite what David or other members of the SC would prefer.
The SC can't make every decision and must trust and believe in their
teams if this community is even going to get off the ground. Releasing
the software is only the first step to success, community is the key.

This is NOT a disagreement about CMSs! it is about building community.

Michael Wheatland.

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