Re: [libreoffice-website] Update on Drupal Website Language Management

Hi Michael,
On 30/11/2010 13:46, Michael Wheatland wrote:
> For those interested, Drupal is a very powerful platform for multi-lingual
> sites.
> A summary presentation of the aspects of the website that involves
> internationalisation can be found here:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Drupal_website_language_management.odp

So some feedback on the presentation:
Slide 6: "Functions of the development, marketing, design and 
documentation teams are common to all languages". Marketing and 
documentation workflows are not common to all languages. Marketing is 
dedicated to countries and of course different for each (see for example 
if I remember well the Otto story in Brazil), and documentation workflow 
is settled by language teams too.
Slide 8: What is translation phase? We do not have translation phase 
else than for the product (UI & HC2).
Slide 9: Categorisation is in pink but I don't see to what it refers.
Slide 10: All along the presentation, it's about adapting translation, 
but what if we don't want this page at all? We are creating our own 
content depending on the area of interest of the language teams, the 
size of the language teams, the representation of the language teams, 
etc. The French and German language teams won't use the same interface 
as the Fon or Bambara language teams. They never had the chance to 
participate under CollabNet infrastructure, I hope that will be possible 
now.
Slide 12: of course if we don't want this interface, we will be able to 
use another one. For example, we are going to settle mg.libreoffice.org 
with only one page named Tonga Soa containing contact information (such 
as a phone number and local addresses) for localization in this local 
language, could you confirm that it will be possible?
Slide 17: About Automatic translation, you say "Allow people from very 
small native language communities to feel part of the community" in term 
of inclusion, this is non sense. Again bad English translated will never 
give a good understanding to somebody reading a language which is 2nd or 
3rd. Believe me, you need to do much more to get those languages on 
board, unless you're able to use automatic translation in these very 
small language communities.
Slide 18: as already said automatic translation for templates doesn't 
work. Even for a given language, you'll have several differences 
depending on the country it is used.
> I would like to invite all people who are involved in Native Language teams
> and translation to give feedback on this presentation here or on the wiki:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal/i18n

Charles already reacts on that and I second his reflexion. Now, if I 
understand well your presentation, we are able to create the interface, 
the content, etc. So if it's this way it's ok for me.
> One thing to take note of not covered in the presentation:
> Native Language Teams will have their own discussion area much the same way
> the marketing or development team will.

The difference is that we need dedicated lists, such as QA, l10n or 
marketing.
> One aspect we need to address is automatic translations and if and when they
> will be used on the site. This is discussed somewhat in the presentation.

Also I would like to come back on Quality Assurance. Please consider 
that aspect too because the manual tests need to be adapted depending on 
the language. We need to test beginning punctuation and end punctuation, 
leading spaces, dates, accentuated characters, translation, orientation, 
etc depending on the language. So the English test which is the master 
can't be automatically translated. By the same way, we use dedicated 
documents that need to be attached to the test.
The best for us would be to be able to get those tests on Pootle because 
we could use our terminology or glossary tools to get consistency 
between the test and the UI.
Also, I've seen the discussion that Danishka initiated about stores. 
Please be aware that some language teams already have online stores, may 
be you would like get in contact with them first.
> Thanks to those who initiated this discussion and please let me know if you
> have any questions.

I hope you don't get me wrong and don't take my remarks as a lack of 
consideration or recognition for you work. I'm working with language 
communities for a long time (sometime very small ones) and I would like 
to make sure to get them with us, hence the energy I put in this 
discussion.
I hope this will help you to see our needs and avoid to waste time on 
things we won't use finally. I've ccing the l10n list and will ask them 
to react to Marc message too.

Kind regards
Sophie


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