Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer Character styles: "Default Paragraph Font" vs "No Character Style" vs "- None -"

Hi Harald,

i apologize for taking days to reply. After a week of work emergencies, I have finally had a chance 
to digest your link and think through the issues.

On 2022-10-02 12:35, LO.Harald.Berger@t-online.de wrote:
> Am 02.10.2022 um 14:30 schrieb John Kaufmann:
> > On 2022-10-02 02:50, LO.Harald.Berger@t-online.de wrote:
> > > Am 02.10.2022 um 07:06 schrieb John Kaufmann:
> > ...
> > > > Discussing Character styles, the Help says of the particular style "No Character Style" that:
> > > >
> > > > > "No Character Style is actually the set of character properties of the current paragraph style. Choose 
> > > > > No Character Style to reset the character properties of the selection to those of the paragraph style."
> > > >
> > > > That sounds fine -- a needed function (though it is new in LO 7, isn't it?). 
> > >
> > > Yes and No, this Character Style is called "Default" in older LibreOffice versions.

Thank you. After thinking about your point, I realize that the "Default" character style was renamed "No Character 
Style" for the benefit of dummies (like me) who did not see the point earlier, that "Default" means revert to the 
character attributes of the underlying paragraph style. (No release notes are needed for that.)

That said, this exposes my second problem:

> > > > But then how does that differ from the particular style "Default Paragraph Style" (about which the Help is 
> > > > silent)? Is not the Default Paragraph Style already set by the current Paragraph style? What does it mean to designate 
> > > > a Character style as "Default Paragraph Style"?
> > >
> > > The "Default Paragraph Style" is sort of the mother of all paragraph styles, IMHO it should not be used, but 
> > > "Text Body" instead.
> >
> > I'm sorry, but isn't "Text Body" a Paragraph style, not a Character style?  My question is about the different purposes of the /Character/ 
> > styles "Default Paragraph Style" [about which, as I asked, What does it mean to designate a /Character/ style as "Default Paragraph 
> > Style"?], "No Character Style" and "- None -".
>
> I must have misunderstood that then.

If you misunderstood, it was only because my question was confused.  What I did not know then about the "Default Paragraph Style" 
*character* style is that it was *NOT* part of the LO package, but was a *custom* character style, produced in our office to try to produce 
what LO's "Default"/"No Character Style" already provided (and was given the name "Default Paragraph Style" 
(which happens to be the same name as the base *paragraph* style) to emphasize its purpose: to revert any character attributes to the 
default attributes defined by the relevant paragraph style).

I apologize for the noise in that regard; before posting, I should have noticed that it was a 
*custom* character style. (When I realized that -- and that it was unnecessary and confusing -- I 
removed it from the system.)


> > Finally: though "- None -" is not among the pre-defined Character styles, it is among the parent choices when defining a new 
> > Character style.  How does the behavior of a Character style change when "Inherit from" is set to ... "No Character 
> > Style" vs "- None -"? [I have not detected a difference.]
> ...
> Let's look at it from the text. Let's say you have written 10 paragraphs and each paragraph has a 
> different paragraph style.
> Now you want to bold one word in each paragraph. You select the words and assign the character style 
> "Strong Emphasis" to each.
> Now you have added one word too many with the character style sheet "Strong Emphasis".
> You now select the word and assign the "No Character Style" character style sheet. The word now has 
> its old format meaning again.
>
> > > Here is some more, I hope, helpful information:
> > > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Videos/Professional_work_in_Writer
> > ...

That was very good [though I could offer a couple minor suggestions*], but I'm sorry to have given 
the impression that I was unaware of either (a) the basic value of styles or (b) the relationship 
of Writer's character to paragraph styles.

The most important thing I learned from your link was about the Style Inspector, a great addition 
to the LO toolset. I'm embarrassed that I did not remark on it when I moved to LO 7, and somehow 
managed to work with the other Sidebar tools (mostly Navigator and Styles) without noticing it.

[* I mentioned that I could offer two minor suggestions on your link. In doing so, I recognize that 
these are problems inherent in any system produced in multiple languages: How to name something in 
translation?  However, since the page was translated from German (Professionelle Arbeit in Writer) 
to English (Professional work in Writer), I assume that the translation wants to use the 
corresponding English naming used in the LO system. To that end,
        (1) "Delete Direct Formatting" => "Clear Direct Formatting"
        (2) Where you say 'All other paragraph styles are derived from the "Standard" paragraph 
style', do you mean:
        'All other paragraph styles are derived from the "Default Paragraph Style"'?]


Thanks to you and Michael, I understand the purpose of "No Character Style", except for the 
remaining issue of inheritance. Let me summarize that problem in this way:
        o Page, List and Table styles are not heritable, and thus by definition have no parent 
style.
        o Paragraph, Character and Frame styles are all heritable.
        o ANY style type which is heritable can declare no parent ("-None-").

But a Character style also can declare inheritance from "No Character Style", as well as from 
"-None-"; I cannot detect a difference in operation.  Since a Character style is used to modify the character 
attributes of a Paragraph style, do you know a good way to think about this difference?

Thanks again for your thoughts,
John

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